Ex-CIA officer says he’s astonished by Putin’s visit to North Korea

Ex-CIA officer says he’s astonished by Putin’s visit to North Korea

Russian President Vladimir Putin and North Korea’s Kim Jong UN just signed this paper in Pyongyang. They are pledging to help each other if their countries are attacked. You can see Putin’s greeting there in Pyongyang over the last day or so, met with thousands of cheering fans and signs that say, Welcome Putin with us now, CNN contributor, former Moscow bureau chief and adjunct professor at Georgetown University, Jill Dougherty and CNN national security analyst and former CIA chief of Russia operation Steve Hall. Jill, for a few, you’ve been not only in Russia but North Korea as well. What’s important here, this document, the language in the agreement or more of the show surrounding it, Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong UN trying to show they could not possibly be closer. I think it’s both. There’s no question. I mean, we have to look at the fine print. as far as I can see right now, they’re saying mutual aid in case of aggression against one of the parties. So what does mutual aid mean? You know, does that mean that let’s say North Korea fires missile, against United States, and then the United States retaliates in some fashion and Russia attacks the United States. What specifically is Putin talking about in some cases, he doesn’t want to define it publicly because that implicit and actually explicit but implicit threat is out there. And that does would Putin wants to do. But then this big show I mean, I am really, I guess astounded by the fact that yet Putin is beginning to sound like Kim Jong UN, he’s using some of the same rhetoric, you know, this hegemonic imperialist West. A lot of this is about the United States and the big, you know, focus is Ukraine, the utter transformation of Russia due to this war that Putin started. And you’re seeing the results here. Yeah. And, Steve, to that point, there are some people look at this Putin going to North Korea. Putin may be a bit of a supplicant here. It’s a sign of weakness. Some say what do you see? I, I share Jill’s, you know, complete astonishment that we’ve gotten to the point now where a former superpower like Russia, you know, used to be a huge, you know, geopolitical issue when it was the Soviet Union is actually now much more looks much more similar to North Korea than it does, say, to China, which is actually a world power these days with the size of its economy and its long term interests. So, yeah, going hat in hand to the North Koreans so that they can get better weaponry to try to fight this, this war that they’ve started with Ukraine is indeed amazing. The other thing it’s amazing is, is that both of these countries say that they’ve signed this agreement out of self-defense. So, I mean, last time I checked, when is when has either North Korea or Russia been attacked? It’s actually been certainly in the case of Russia, the other way around, or they’ve been attacking their neighbors, whether it’s Ukraine or whether it’s Georgia in the past or any other, the military action. So it is a bit rich that both of them are saying, we’re so concerned about our defensive posture that we have to have some sort of, some sort of, some sort of treaty. It’s really interesting. And Jill, whether or not this is about weakness, how much weakness or strength here, how does the U.S. navigate this picture we’re seeing right here? Of the two men? Oh, I think, the most important thing will be to see what’s behind the scenes. So what are they going to agree upon? Because obviously, you know, we know what Putin wants, which is, you know, ammunition, missiles, etc. for Ukraine. But what is really concerning, I think, for the United States is what does North Korea want from Russia? And we know it is definitely high tech and it would be used for military purposes in the air, on the land and in the sea. And that is has to be concerning to the United States, there’s no question. And so what they’re trying to figure out is how far does this go? What will Putin give to North Korea that could threaten the United States, not to mention Asia? Yeah. Because, Steve, people may not remember at this point. For a long time, Russia was kind of on board with trying to keep North Korea from becoming a nuclear power, all those international agreements to sort of limit them. Russia was part of that. Doesn’t seem like it’s going to be very operative going forward. Oh, no, no, no, I mean, this this is another oops. I’m sorry Steve. Sorry, Joe. Yeah. No. With the signing of this agreement, it entirely changes, you know, the relationship, there regionally and certainly with Russia. But it’s also an interesting opportunity, I think, because, you know, China provides the vast majority. I think the number is 90% of North Korea’s needs. North Korea has now put itself in the position of providing what it what Russia needs to it. In other words, ammunition for the war against Ukraine. So China is in this position where they can actually exert significant leverage over both Russia and, and North Korea, which is something that I think the West is probably going to be looking at, because China, of course, has much larger goals, some of which depend on solid market relationships, at least economic relationships with the United States and with Europe. So it could be the United States and Europe might go to China and say, look, you gotta you got to weigh in here because these guys are it’s it’s looking a little bit strange. Still. Yeah. I think, you know, if you look at this relationship, one of the really important parts of this is Russia, looking at North Korea, which is a rogue state, but in the context of other countries that they can leverage, they’ve got Iran over here, China over here. Although I would argue China is different, you know, a more sophisticated relationship, but definitely Iran, North Korea, all of the, to coin a phrase, no good nicks in the world they will leverage to make difficulties for the United States. And if they can do that individually, they’re not that powerful. But combined, they could create a lot of mischief for the United States. And this is one of the problems. I think, again, we go back to Ukraine. I believe that Russia, that, Putin is doing this because he is infuriated by the United States allowing Ukraine to use weapons to hit the Russian mainland. He said, I’m going to retaliate, and I think we’re watching it right now. Look, and I think the International Diplomatic Game Board right now is getting shuffled in ways that we just haven’t seen in a long, long time. Jill, Steve Hall, great to have you both here this morning. Thanks for explaining it so well. Let’s get some perspective on this meeting and we’re joined now by Ellen Kim. She is a deputy director of the Korea chair at the center for Strategic and International Studies, and she’s also a senior fellow there. Ellen, good to have you. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. So the this new partnership that was signed between the two leaders pledged to help each other if either nation is attacked. Putin is calling it a breakthrough agreement. We don’t have many details at all about what this exactly means. What is your take? So as you said, we just learned about it. So there’s nothing much to get the details yet. And I think that both countries have not really actually released the text of it. But the there is it was expected that both countries were going to sign their comprehensive strategic partnership. And now this comprehensive partnership is going to include actually revive their old alliance treaty obligation. the friendship agreement the two countries signed in 2000, did not have a, clause on automatic military integration, but this time, if it think that it looks like that, they actually include that clause, which is a huge, raising a huge alarm, in Washington, Seoul, and had huge security implications on the Korean Peninsula. What kind of implications? I mean, potential boots on the ground, you know, by North Korean troops in Ukraine and vice versa. I don’t think that that is the case yet. but I think that it means that North Korea has a China and Russia as a security partner. And, not to mention that they have a nuclear weapons. I do not think that North Korea is going to send its army to the Russia to fight Russia’s war in Ukraine. I don’t think that it’s we are there yet. but today, with the agreement that they both country reached, I think this is a huge, big win for North Korean leader, more so than for Putin. So who wins bigger hair? well, I think it goes both ways. This is, Putin’s, I mean, as you said, this is a Putin first time to visit, World Korea in 24 years. And that really indicates a huge, importance that Putin places. On his relationship with North Korean leader. because of the war in Ukraine. Putin wants to have a more, missiles and ammunition support from North Korea. So this is something that Putin really needs right now. And I think that this might have happened, between the two leaders when they met. The reporting has been that North Korea has been sending munitions to Russia since its invasion of Ukraine, although that has been denied by both North Korea and Russia. So, we know Putin is there obviously, to ask for more military assistance in terms of hardware from North Korea. What is North Korea then getting out of this? Besides, you know, I mean, Kim Jong UN must feel so lonely. He hasn’t had, a foreign leader visit him in many years since the pandemic. is the concern that Russia will transfer military technology to North Korea? And how likely is that? So, first of all, this bilateral relationship cooperation between North Korea and Russia has not been a one way street. North Korea, I mean, Russia has been reciprocating North Korea’s military support by, sending food and oil to North Korea that the country needs so desperately at the UN Security Council as, at the Security Council. Russia has been defending North Korea whenever North Korea, North Korea carried out missile test in violation multiple Us-Eu Council led solution. So the point is that there is a mutually beneficial relationship between the these two countries. And we are seeing that with the Putin’s visit today. And there is huge concern in right now in Seoul and Washington about, Russia’s possible, transfer of the arms, advanced military technology such as a nuclear submarine, or satellites or ICBMs that could accelerate North Korea’s weapons program.

Thousands of North Koreans chanting “welcome Putin” lined Pyongyang’s wide boulevards brandishing Russian and North Korean flags and bouquets of flowers, as Vladimir Putin kicked off his first visit to North Korea in 24 years with a finely choreographed display of influence in the dictatorship. Ex-CIA official Steve Hall and former CNN Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty discuss Putin’s trip. #CNN #news

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