How New Anti-Drone ‘Frankenstein’ Tanks Could Help Ukraine Crush Putin | The War Zone

How New Anti-Drone ‘Frankenstein’ Tanks Could Help Ukraine Crush Putin | The War Zone

the world is on a knife edge there’s over 100 armed conflicts currently taking place right across the globe some of these are new others have been going on for decades but each episode will break down everything you need to know to understand the battles shaping the world today welcome to the war zone I’m Maddie hail more than 850 Days Later Russia and Ukraine are still locked in a war a war that sees Russia continually and aggressively push its way into Ukraine aiming to occupy the country as a Ukrainian Army defends itself with all they have last month it looked like Putin’s Army were well on their way to capturing Ukraine’s second largest city har but the country seems to have held its own the aftermath if Russia were to win this war would be catastrophic not just for Ukraine but for the rest of the world making it clear that NATO needs to protect Ukraine at all costs but perhaps Ukraine May soon get the upper hand with the emergence of not just military aid from the United States but a particular tank from Germany joining me now to discuss this is former British Colonel heish Deron Gordon heish thank you so much for your time today now you’ve pointed out that Germany aren’t far off from sending a new tank the Frankenstein tank to Ukraine its fight against Russia can you walk me through exactly what this tank is and how it’s different to the ones the Ukrainian military are already using sure thanks very much for for for having me on um this is a new piece of Kiss and on the face of it we’ve talked about tanks an awful lot in this war the fact that these beasts that are over 110 years old from conception um that really changed the face of the first world war as still having such an impact you know 110 years later uh in Ukraine uh but what has also emerged in this uh war is is the Drone War these tiny little drones $500 a piece thousands if not millions of them flying around dropping hand grenades into tank hatches and really making a huge difference um and the challenge is being is how how with a a force that was designed before drones became a thing how that you actually defend against them and lots of Novel approaches have been looked at from you know putting metal cages on top of tanks and vehicles um using lasers to try and disrupt these drones um and also just firing lots of ammunition at them so this latest German tank which is a sort of evolution of their current leopard tanks the idea is that they’ll use the leopard one hols the oldest German tanks which they have an awful lot of and are putting in effect an anti-aircraft gun uh a 35 mm sky ranger gun and this is a gun that fires thousands of rounds of ammunition and is designed to be able to take down these drones at low cost um hither to uh the ukrainians have had to use expensive anti-aircraft missiles to take down these drones and it and they’ve run out of it as as we know so this seems a really novel and clever way of of bridging this Gap because these Frankenstein tanks as they’re called could take thousands of drones out of there and it’s repurposing a tank that already exists I think the other interesting thing is that it’s using a 35 mm Cannon and uh we many people have seen and we’ve talked before a very similar weapon very similar gun is on the Bradley armored Fighting Vehicle which is the American um infantry Troop Carrier but also has this gun on which has been hugely effective uh and we’ve described how this 35 mimer Cannon has also taken out some of the most elite Russian sort of T90 tanks so not only does this Frank Stein tank appear to answer you know the the question of how you deal with thousands and thousands of drones but also it has the potential to be used against Russian armored vehicles and because there are so many of these leopard one tank holes around and also a lot of the Sky Ranger guns um many many of these uh vehicles um can be adapted and we understand that they’re going to be on the front line very soon the challenges of some of the laser um weapons that have been designed to shoot down these drones is that you know although they work they’re not going to be available in numbers um for years but this Frankenstein tank will be there very soon and should make a significant difference so it’s obviously the more uh efficient and cost effective piece of artillery Weaponry in this incredibly expensive war that so many countries have had to fund Ukraine to you know get them protecting their own country but you said that it it will be there shortly but is there a time time frame you think heish where it could get there and and how many are there actually of these Frankenstein tanks that can be immediately sent to Ukraine well it’s difficult to tell and I don’t think the the the German government have have uh said that but we we have seen the tank I mean it exists um it is just a question of of taking the turret of the sky ranger gun and putting it on top of a of a leopard one tank Hole uh the Germans will have a lot of both so one would imagine that they could put you know tens if not hundreds of these vehicles to the front line now how quickly they’re going to be there I mean the because this war is moving so quickly the fact that the Russian go uh the German government have said that they’re available and we be going to the front line one would expect to see them on the front line in weeks if not you know if if not days rather than months so one would hope very quickly because we know that the summer is going to be critical we’ve seen the big fights around hke which we’ll cover in a minute but a lot of people and me as well other military analysts believe the main push is going to be further south and that is where they are going to need these um anti-aircraft tanks um in numbers to make sure that they can hold the Russians there so the Frankenstein tanks are quite detrimental to this fight at Haria we’ll get straight into that this the second largest city in Ukraine and it’s the the one the one city that the Russian army are trying so hard to occupy and it seems like the Ukrainian Army have they’ve held off we thought one month ago that they would have taken it by now but it seems Ukrainian Army have done a good enough job to be able to block them from entering but they aren’t far off the area so if the Frankenstein tanks were to get there in the next few weeks would it’ be a huge Advantage for the Ukrainian Army I I I think it’ll be a huge Advantage whether they get to I mean harke is is absolutely pivotal to all of this you know as you said it’s the second City it’s very close to the Russian border and if the Russians could take it it would be a huge morale boost for them and and conversely you know bad for the morale for the ukrainians um and which is why uh Ukraine has redeployed a number of brigades to make sure it doesn’t happen um but but and also you know the Russians have taken unbelievable amounts of casualties uh we’re talking a thousand dead every day over the last few months I mean it is just unimaginable I mean that yesterday we saw a report uh the uh UK Ministry of Defense intelligence update yesterday said that the Russians had 150,000 prisoners on the front line um 40% of all of which had already been killed but it is just an industrial scale but we think that the Russian attack in har was a faint to try and draw these forces away uh and it would appear that the main thrust is coming up from uh further south in the dbass where a lot of Russian troops H have been um building up so it it is probably there where these Frankenstein tanks should be directed um because it would appear that the ukrainians have now held harke and now that the ukrainians have permission from the Americans to fire up to 400 kilm into Russia with some of the sophisticated Weaponry like the attacks and the high Mars Precision missiles actually the ukrainians are are getting slightly on the front foot now and it would appear the Russians are not making progress uh in the northeast of Ukraine and one would expect them now to focus back down into the dbass where they might have an advantage so I if I was directing these Frankenstein tank tanks and other key equipments it would probably be down to the donbass rather than the H area so heus do you think that Putin’s Army are close to H or or are now at a standstill because they haven’t made those inroads yet or do you think it was more of a distraction to be targeting the H area but in actuality the Russian army were moving more south towards dbass as you’ve said absolutely in in military terms we call it a faint in other words you know a bit like a boxer doing a a sort of dummy punch uh to try and get get the ukrainians off balance um it would seem you know and and to have a a faint to be effective you need to put troops behind it and there needs to be reason to it so one can see why the Russians might want to take harke but actually um and I’m sure if they had managed to take harke they would have reinforced that but they’ve been very much held now and pushed back taken unbelievable amounts of casualties uh and the focus is very much back to the dbass where where the analysis which I agree with is that that is where the main thrust is going to be this summer and that’s where Ukraine needs to focus but at least now that they’re getting the ammunition from the Americans that has been so badly missed over the last six months they’ve also got the ability to fire deep into Russia and we’ve seen some of their attacks into crime over the last few days having a huge impact on the command and control systems there so yeah I think from a few months ago we were really concerned that harke would fall and the Russians were making definitive progress but now it would appear actually you know Ukraine is is just getting the advantage and hopefully as long as Weaponry keeps coming through and let’s not forget the F-16 fighter jets are just over the horizon that actually Ukraine might be able to start making some progress rather than falling back as they have been for the last six months or so so you you just mentioned this haish but obviously the the Weaponry that the that Ukraine had been missing from the US they hadn’t had any in months and months I think from November they hadn’t received anything they’re now receiving the Weaponry from the United States and the US is now permitted Ukraine as you said to use this Western artillery and Rockets to defend haave which seems to have actually bought Ukraine some more time how successful has this Advantage been for Ukraine well I think it’s been crucial um without the ability to strike into Russia um it’s likely that hke might well have fallen because you in effect Ukraine’s been fighting with one hand tie behind its back you know not being able to attack the Russians until they’re actually in Ukraine whereas of course all their command and control um headquarters their airfields where their troops mass is all in Russia now they’ve been able to attack those and what we call the lines of communication where all the ammunition comes from it’s really blunted Russia’s attack in that area and um the focus for what we call the Deep battle in other words fighting behind the front lines is now very much in the dbass and down into Crimea so yeah it’s it’s been crucial what is a great shame is that they haven’t been able to do this all war had they been it might have been a different story well on that note heish most people know that the United States is providing Ukraine with military humanitarian Aid this has been going on since the war started in February 22 they’re the highest donor to Ukraine but not a lot of people would know that with this money with this Aid comes to restrictions on what they can use and where it can be used why had the Biden Administration implemented this policy that that Ukraine weren’t allowed to strike into Russian territory until Russ the Russian army had moved into Ukrainian territory I think the key thing behind it is the Americans and ourselves and NATO want to avoid escalation um you know if if NATO weapons Us weapons have been used to strike Russia um as Putin and the other gangsters in the Kremlin say you know that is now NATO fighting Russia and would and Russia is using that excuse to threaten us with nuclear weapons you know virtually on a daily basis and all the way along I think from the very start of the war people have been very conscious not to try and expand it into World War III or war in Europe and I think politicians are very cautious um and what one can appreciate that but I think people have seen now that actually the war hasn’t you know it’s over two and a half years now it hasn’t extended um hasn’t escalated Putin hasn’t used his nuclear weapons so we have always been trying to give Ukraine the wherewithal to defeat the Russians themselves and now the view taken is that actually the best way to do that is to allow the ukrainians to strike into Russia um which they’re now doing and as we’ve seen that has not elicited a nuclear weapon heading towards Europe or the UK or anywhere else and it hasn’t escalate and spread the war you know fundamentally Putin uh does not want that he absolutely knows that militarily NATO um overmatch the Russians by sort of 10 as to one so he he knows if he gets into a fight with NATO he’s completely finished and now he’s probably we heard about his Ceasar the other day which was a bit ridiculous We Gather some of Putin’s uh some of Trump’s advisors now suggesting that they might push for a ceasefire if Trump gets in later in the year and I think you Putin is looking probably for a way out so yeah this is the time to really keep supporting Ukraine to the hilt well just finally heh on that note Trump’s advisers say that Ukraine needs to push for a peace talks if the Trump if Trump were to be brought back in for another term in the November 2024 presidential election that’s a a huge call to be making uh to be saying that Ukraine is the the ones that need to be pushing for peace talks with Russia what do you what did you make of a comment like that and what does that kind of indicate to you if Trump were to win this election well I think from a military strategic position it’s really unhelpful um the last thing you need to do is to you know give your enemy too much information you know tell them what you’re going to do because then they can react to it and if Putin thinks that come November um you know Trump is going to assist insist on negotiations and stop the flow of weapons then for Putin he’s thinking right if I can hold on where I am till then I’ve got what I I I want to achieve I mean his peace deal as basically um stopping where we are now demilitarizing Ukraine and those four oblas which the Russians are illegally um holding at the moment become part of Russia so um yeah Putin probably thinks hang on to November and I’ll get exactly that so it is very very unhelpful um and which is why it makes the next three or four months so absolutely abely crucial that you know if Trump does get in and insists on a ceas far negotiations at the end of the year then Ukraine is in a very much better position than it is at the moment hey Mr Ron Gordon thank you so much for your time today

The world is on a knife edge with over 100 armed conflicts currently taking place right across the globe. Some of these are new. Others have been going on for decades, but each episode will break down. Everything you need to know to understand the battles shaping the world today. Welcome to the war zone.

More than 850 days later, Russia and Ukraine are still locked in a war, a war that sees Russia continually and aggressively push its way into Ukraine, aiming to occupy the country as the Ukrainian army defends itself with all they have.

Perhaps Ukraine may soon get the upper hand with the emergence of not just military aid from the United States, but a particular tank from Germany. Joining Maddie Hale to discuss this is former British Colonel Hamish de Bretton-Gordon.

Hamish will also be speaking at the Chalke History Festival: https://www.chalkefestival.com/

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