Nobody is. Fleeing and leaving your nanny behind is not a choice, though.
There are no patriots in a long war, and there are no filial sons in a long illness.
As a Ukrainian, honestly, I don’t blame them.
When you read the news how conscription officers injure or even supposedly kill people, how corrupt MPs get out of jail, how officers in the army that are responsible for supplies steal dozens of millions of dollars, how the West looks in horror at the fact that Ukraine cannot live for one month without corruption scandal, and how certain drunkard incompetent generals who are no different from their Russian counterparts and care about orders and honors more than their soldiers send thousands to a certain death, just because they want to write about recaptured village in a report to the president, you lose any motivation.
There are many instances where the government pretty much doesn’t care about injured soldiers. The idea that there might be no demobilization, the government lying about it and just acquiring new soldiers to close the gaps on the frontline due to colossal losses (much more than officially reported) also doesn’t add any motivation.
Or the fact that conscription officers are now soldiers who returned from the frontline and have PTSD, using their position to vent their pain and trauma (because overall psychological help from the government is horrible).
Or the fact that apparently the closest advisor of our president is a former Russian shill, and this shoddy guy supposedly entirely controls certain aspects of the government, even though the West repeatedly pointed out his shadowy origins.
I am 19 now, and I am not sure whether I would be able to go to the frontline. It’s a very tough question. I have no one to defend, my whole family can swiftly emigrate and live in any Western country, they all have resources for that.
Guys from the West who might say that I spread Russian propaganda — I am not a Russian shill, and I genuinely want Ukraine to win the war, after all, I am a Ukrainian myself. What I say is something you can hear from many Ukrainians here at home. Putin is a monster and shall be stopped, no questions here.
TL;DR: enormous corruption and social inequality in its most extreme forms along with the fact that the government hid enormous losses from the public for a long time killed any motivation. Ukraine is a kleptocracy and plutocracy under liberal government.
Edit: and I am already downvoted. Guys, again, Putin — khuilo and everything else, I am a Ukrainian myself. But maybe you should look at alternative takes from Ukrainians themselves, even if they don’t match the flowery depictions from the media.
Edit #2: again, I don’t claim that this is the most objective or pure take. Not in any way. There are many Ukrainians who would agree with me, and there are many Ukrainians who would disagree with me. It highly depends on the region, socioeconomic status, presence of relatives or friends in the government structures et cetera.
Edit #3: I will not reply to other replies anymore due to lack of time and mental resources. Thank you all for interaction! If you are a Ukrainian with a directly opposite perspective — don’t worry, I respect you because we are all stuck here and look at the same situation, just with different eyes — plurality of the views is very important. For the Westerners who read this — interact with all takes, including the ones directly opposite to mine. But listen to Ukrainians themselves, and if you want to know the truth — the best way is to use a translator to go to our domestic media and chats. Nationalist takes, leftist takes — the most important part is that they must come from Ukrainians themselves. Don’t treat me as the most reliable sources because I am a human with a personal bias. Good luck to you all, and have a nice time!
Well, at least now newspapers are talking about people in Ukraine are in depraved state not only because Russia invaded.
>While overall support for the country’s troops remain high and polls show that there is still a considerable number of men willing to be mobilised, Ukraine’s conscription drive risks dividing Ukrainian society, already plagued by war fatigue.
“there is still a considerable number of men willing to be mobilised”
What do they mean by that? If there is “considerable number of men willing to be mobilised”, why people are snatched from the streets?
The problem is that there is a huge mismatch between Zelensky’s goals and ordinary citizens’ expectations.
At the beginning of the invasion it was all about saving Ukrainian independence and freedom, and it was a common goal for everyone. That’s why there was a lot of volunteers and a sense of national unity.
However now it is different. Zelensky wants to get to the borders of 1991, but majority of population doesn’t believe it is possible. Who cares about Crimea or Mariupol, when your your houses are destroyed by Russian missiles; when your husbands, sons, friends die to recover 100 square meters of land. It is especially painful after the disastrous counter offensive of 2023.
The fault of Ukrainian government is that in late 2022 after a couple of huge succesess they started to ensure people that the full victory ( 1991 borders) is almost here. They literally talked about deoccupying Crimea in 2023 or 2024 on numerous occasions.
Putin is a delusional maniac, but Ukrainian government are delusional morons.
P.S. I am a Ukrainian and hate Russia with all my heart. It is just that there is a fucking reality where good guys don’t always win the way they want.
only a stupid man fights in a war
And let’s me remind – EU doesn’t give an ability to seek asylum for them. So, effectively conscripts don’t have a lot of options: only prison in Russia and Putin’s war.
That is why war wasn’t finished almost immediately
No one was made for war, but country in need, my family in need to be protected.
Why stay and give one’s life for a country that’s only marginally better than the invading country? There was already huge emigration from Ukraine before the war as people found better prospects elsewhere.
Nobody is made for war in reality, it is not an excuse
Russian propaganda is blooming in the thread
Oh lol, when I told you half a year ago that my UA friends mentioned about men being snatched from the streets and that they are afraid of going out I was labeled a putinist and how unreal this was. This subreddit is no different than mainstream media propaganda, what a shame.
They should not suffer because Russian emperor decided their nation is fake, created by Nazi gay mutants in evil CIA laboratory.
Kremlin and their puppet, Donald Trump are evil.
What a time to live! Reddit is now a warmonger platform. Ukrainan fathers are teared apart from their families to be droned in a random trench.
Fuck Ukraine, and fuck Russia, let the people live. The least we need is treating people as cannon fodders so lockheed and US congressmen get their pocket full all paid by the taxpayer.
Peace must be and it must be now.
Why are only men being sent to the front lines? There should be the same rules for all people with any gender identity or sexual orientation!
Second, why should anyone be forced to fight for the imaginary notion of “nation”? Let the leaders and oligarchs sort out their mess and not force young men to certain death /disability.
Redditors, cozy in mom’s basement, say they are cowards,
Nobody is made for war.
Negotiate now
Remember this: conscription is the act of losing the right of not being killed.
I mean, if the women are allowed to flee, why not the men?
Meanwhile, armchair generals keep sending billions of $ to keep the war going and letting young men die instead of negociating peace.
You don’t have to be in a combat role though. If you make it perfectly clear your useless on the front, they probably won’t put you there
No land is worth dying for. I would never volunteer. We see how veterans and veterans’ families are treated everywhere, not just Ukraine. Why should I give my life for a piece of land when, even if I die, my family won’t get any benefits from the government?
There’s a word for men who don’t want to fight to defend their country: Cowards
Why they don’t want to die? We paid them so much exactly for this.
That’s normal, some people are selfish others aren’t, but in the end those people need to answer their children question: “Did you defended Ukraine?” and the only way they will probably survive psychologically would be to tell a lie to their children and themselves and carry that lie until they die. Also there are a lot of roles where the mortality rate is very low like drones and artillery soldiers behind the frontline, so they’re not forced to fight in the frontline although Ukraine can’t have only artillery and drones operators. So their excuses of not wanting to fight because of death rate etc is not acceptable because there’s always a position more safe you can be while helping your country.
If ukrainains do not go to the frontline, the frontline will come to them.
Russian here.
I would never blame anyone fleeing conscription, because the sad truth is that neither modern Ukraine state or modern Russia state are anything worth fighting for.
Two post-soviet countries occupied by corrupt politicians (who of course wouldn’t fight in the war themselves or send their children) trying to create a social contact of “you go die for us, and we will promise to you it was all in the name of a wonderful future that we were not able to build in 20 years”.
That’s actually the reason that by this point Russia has completely shifted to luring people with money. Sign a contact, and you will get 4 years worth of an average salary immediately just by signing it. And even with such huge payouts, Russia is still struggling to hit even 50% of recruitment targets.
28 comments
Nobody is. Fleeing and leaving your nanny behind is not a choice, though.
There are no patriots in a long war, and there are no filial sons in a long illness.
As a Ukrainian, honestly, I don’t blame them.
When you read the news how conscription officers injure or even supposedly kill people, how corrupt MPs get out of jail, how officers in the army that are responsible for supplies steal dozens of millions of dollars, how the West looks in horror at the fact that Ukraine cannot live for one month without corruption scandal, and how certain drunkard incompetent generals who are no different from their Russian counterparts and care about orders and honors more than their soldiers send thousands to a certain death, just because they want to write about recaptured village in a report to the president, you lose any motivation.
There are many instances where the government pretty much doesn’t care about injured soldiers. The idea that there might be no demobilization, the government lying about it and just acquiring new soldiers to close the gaps on the frontline due to colossal losses (much more than officially reported) also doesn’t add any motivation.
Or the fact that conscription officers are now soldiers who returned from the frontline and have PTSD, using their position to vent their pain and trauma (because overall psychological help from the government is horrible).
Or the fact that apparently the closest advisor of our president is a former Russian shill, and this shoddy guy supposedly entirely controls certain aspects of the government, even though the West repeatedly pointed out his shadowy origins.
I am 19 now, and I am not sure whether I would be able to go to the frontline. It’s a very tough question. I have no one to defend, my whole family can swiftly emigrate and live in any Western country, they all have resources for that.
Guys from the West who might say that I spread Russian propaganda — I am not a Russian shill, and I genuinely want Ukraine to win the war, after all, I am a Ukrainian myself. What I say is something you can hear from many Ukrainians here at home. Putin is a monster and shall be stopped, no questions here.
TL;DR: enormous corruption and social inequality in its most extreme forms along with the fact that the government hid enormous losses from the public for a long time killed any motivation. Ukraine is a kleptocracy and plutocracy under liberal government.
Edit: and I am already downvoted. Guys, again, Putin — khuilo and everything else, I am a Ukrainian myself. But maybe you should look at alternative takes from Ukrainians themselves, even if they don’t match the flowery depictions from the media.
Edit #2: again, I don’t claim that this is the most objective or pure take. Not in any way. There are many Ukrainians who would agree with me, and there are many Ukrainians who would disagree with me. It highly depends on the region, socioeconomic status, presence of relatives or friends in the government structures et cetera.
Edit #3: I will not reply to other replies anymore due to lack of time and mental resources. Thank you all for interaction! If you are a Ukrainian with a directly opposite perspective — don’t worry, I respect you because we are all stuck here and look at the same situation, just with different eyes — plurality of the views is very important. For the Westerners who read this — interact with all takes, including the ones directly opposite to mine. But listen to Ukrainians themselves, and if you want to know the truth — the best way is to use a translator to go to our domestic media and chats. Nationalist takes, leftist takes — the most important part is that they must come from Ukrainians themselves. Don’t treat me as the most reliable sources because I am a human with a personal bias. Good luck to you all, and have a nice time!
Well, at least now newspapers are talking about people in Ukraine are in depraved state not only because Russia invaded.
>While overall support for the country’s troops remain high and polls show that there is still a considerable number of men willing to be mobilised, Ukraine’s conscription drive risks dividing Ukrainian society, already plagued by war fatigue.
“there is still a considerable number of men willing to be mobilised”
What do they mean by that? If there is “considerable number of men willing to be mobilised”, why people are snatched from the streets?
The problem is that there is a huge mismatch between Zelensky’s goals and ordinary citizens’ expectations.
At the beginning of the invasion it was all about saving Ukrainian independence and freedom, and it was a common goal for everyone. That’s why there was a lot of volunteers and a sense of national unity.
However now it is different. Zelensky wants to get to the borders of 1991, but majority of population doesn’t believe it is possible. Who cares about Crimea or Mariupol, when your your houses are destroyed by Russian missiles; when your husbands, sons, friends die to recover 100 square meters of land. It is especially painful after the disastrous counter offensive of 2023.
The fault of Ukrainian government is that in late 2022 after a couple of huge succesess they started to ensure people that the full victory ( 1991 borders) is almost here. They literally talked about deoccupying Crimea in 2023 or 2024 on numerous occasions.
Putin is a delusional maniac, but Ukrainian government are delusional morons.
P.S. I am a Ukrainian and hate Russia with all my heart. It is just that there is a fucking reality where good guys don’t always win the way they want.
only a stupid man fights in a war
And let’s me remind – EU doesn’t give an ability to seek asylum for them. So, effectively conscripts don’t have a lot of options: only prison in Russia and Putin’s war.
That is why war wasn’t finished almost immediately
No one was made for war, but country in need, my family in need to be protected.
Why stay and give one’s life for a country that’s only marginally better than the invading country? There was already huge emigration from Ukraine before the war as people found better prospects elsewhere.
Nobody is made for war in reality, it is not an excuse
Russian propaganda is blooming in the thread
Oh lol, when I told you half a year ago that my UA friends mentioned about men being snatched from the streets and that they are afraid of going out I was labeled a putinist and how unreal this was. This subreddit is no different than mainstream media propaganda, what a shame.
They should not suffer because Russian emperor decided their nation is fake, created by Nazi gay mutants in evil CIA laboratory.
Kremlin and their puppet, Donald Trump are evil.
What a time to live! Reddit is now a warmonger platform. Ukrainan fathers are teared apart from their families to be droned in a random trench.
Fuck Ukraine, and fuck Russia, let the people live. The least we need is treating people as cannon fodders so lockheed and US congressmen get their pocket full all paid by the taxpayer.
Peace must be and it must be now.
Why are only men being sent to the front lines? There should be the same rules for all people with any gender identity or sexual orientation!
Second, why should anyone be forced to fight for the imaginary notion of “nation”? Let the leaders and oligarchs sort out their mess and not force young men to certain death /disability.
Redditors, cozy in mom’s basement, say they are cowards,
Nobody is made for war.
Negotiate now
Remember this: conscription is the act of losing the right of not being killed.
I mean, if the women are allowed to flee, why not the men?
Meanwhile, armchair generals keep sending billions of $ to keep the war going and letting young men die instead of negociating peace.
You don’t have to be in a combat role though. If you make it perfectly clear your useless on the front, they probably won’t put you there
No land is worth dying for. I would never volunteer. We see how veterans and veterans’ families are treated everywhere, not just Ukraine. Why should I give my life for a piece of land when, even if I die, my family won’t get any benefits from the government?
There’s a word for men who don’t want to fight to defend their country: Cowards
Why they don’t want to die? We paid them so much exactly for this.
That’s normal, some people are selfish others aren’t, but in the end those people need to answer their children question: “Did you defended Ukraine?” and the only way they will probably survive psychologically would be to tell a lie to their children and themselves and carry that lie until they die. Also there are a lot of roles where the mortality rate is very low like drones and artillery soldiers behind the frontline, so they’re not forced to fight in the frontline although Ukraine can’t have only artillery and drones operators. So their excuses of not wanting to fight because of death rate etc is not acceptable because there’s always a position more safe you can be while helping your country.
If ukrainains do not go to the frontline, the frontline will come to them.
Russian here.
I would never blame anyone fleeing conscription, because the sad truth is that neither modern Ukraine state or modern Russia state are anything worth fighting for.
Two post-soviet countries occupied by corrupt politicians (who of course wouldn’t fight in the war themselves or send their children) trying to create a social contact of “you go die for us, and we will promise to you it was all in the name of a wonderful future that we were not able to build in 20 years”.
That’s actually the reason that by this point Russia has completely shifted to luring people with money. Sign a contact, and you will get 4 years worth of an average salary immediately just by signing it. And even with such huge payouts, Russia is still struggling to hit even 50% of recruitment targets.