Bold of you to assume that the American LARPers and actual bigots in this sub can read sentences that long.
But americans are cringe
Oh damn! We’re trapped now!
Based barry
It’s the age old question of nature vs nurture
It depends on how many generations. If both parents are born in America they’re no longer Irish.
The number of times you see an ‘Irishman’ taking the mick out of an “Irish American”, then discover that they are second or third gen “London Irish’….
Fuck skin colour, place of birth or any other arbitrary shit.
The way to see if someone is Italian is by checking if they still live with their mother aged 35.
Whereas the way to see if someone is American is to ask how many active shooter drills they went through at school. If the answer is >0 they’re American.
It’s not that difficult.
Personally I think – regardless of where you are legally from – whether or not I think you really belong in a country is purely cultural. Americans with Scottish ancestry aren’t Scottish because their entire understanding of Scottish culture is based on Braveheart, likewise there are people born here who don’t share any of our cultural values and I wouldn’t consider them truly Scottish either.
It’s also not a binary thing either, someone living here long enough and embracing the culture will slowly become more and more Scottish.
Counterpoint: ius soli citizenship is itself an american institution that’s almost unheard of in the old world. Europe is made of nation-states, not immigrant melting pots. Op just internalized american culture, likely because of too much exposure to american media.
OK, German Americans are Germans, rather claim them than Mohammed who does not speak German either although his family has lived here for 50+ years
The converse is also true
Well the question is rather how those people consider themselves, what value of said country they are willing to represent and how well they are willing to integrate.
The 57% of French-born Muslims aged 15-25 considering the Sharia Law to be above the République and its laws are kind of forsaking their Frenchiness themselves if you ask me.
I do accept them if they’re born here, but msny decendants of imigrants reject that and say they’re not British they’re Pakistani, or Jamaican or whatever. When I say if you were born here you’re British, they call me ignorant and racist. Go figure.
If you’d rather have your child dead than LGBT+ you don’t belong in western europe
simple as
edit: note how I didn’t refer to trans people in my initial comment aside from the single letter ‘T’ also note how quickly people start to target them
Awwwww maaan don’t need that
Don’t look at Greeks. For us, Tom Hanks is Greek re malaka.
Savage in disguise detected
Ethnicity, culture and nationality are 3 entirely different concepts.
Whether someone respects and follows the culture of a country or not is the deciding factor on their nationality because that’s the only real thing that differentiates countries.
What was that? I can’t hear you over all the DÖP DÖDÖDÖDÖP
Most european countries practice ius sanguinis, not ius soli. And rightly so.
sir, i didn’t come here to have rational conversations
don’t care, still not accepting either of them, you’re mad
If you feel Swedish, talk Swedish and act Swedish then you are Swedish in my book. It doesn’t matter the colour of your skin or hair. It brings a tear to my eyes when I see immigrants who take heed of our culture, speak our language and pay taxes.
Right-wingers just don’t get this, or they don’t want to get this. How are we going to move past the immigration issues if we don’t allow these people to “become Swedish”? If we give them no avenue to *be* Swedish then of course they’re going to set up their own camps in the suburbs where they don’t feel like outsiders, which causes just more segregation and all the problems worse.
They’re here now, now we have to deal with it. We are shooting ourselves in the foot if we don’t let them become Swedes because they look different. It’s purely self-preservation from a logical standpoint, working against that is working against a functioning society.
The irony is that the far-right, not just in this country, are the ones cheering the most when a terror attack happens by some “brown folks”. They’re just sitting there hoping one happens.
They get all the ammunition they want if a terror attack happens in Paris during the Olympics or some dumbass does some shit in the name of Islam in Sweden.
Edit: I should say right-wingers on the extreme end. Both our left and right have sat on their hands for the past 2 decades and are finally starting to do something about it. Change was needed. Immigration is fine but it needs to be in moderation, not like we have been doing. 2015 we took in 165k immigrants, which is over 1.5% of our population, in just 1 year. There no way that works with the biggest welfare state in the world, no matter how you crunch the numbers.
Yeah and?
No these are two things. You can be fake “Turk” because you have some ancestors and also not fit into the other scociety. The thing is they aren’t popular in their home country either.
This man woke up today and chose violence.
I was born and lived in Barryland til I was 8. My family moved back to my mother’s hometown in Ireland.
I consider myself Irish because I know how Ireland works. I know how it feels. How it thinks.
I do not know these things about Barryland. The few times ive gone there, the place felt different to home. People’s views were different. They didn’t understand the nuances of my humour. I am not a Barry.
I recently moved to the Netherlands. It feels different. It thinks different. I can’t assume things work a certain way. New situations are stressful in a way they are not at home. I am not a swamp German.
Irish-Americans are American. Italian-americans are American.
Good point.
Of course there is a matter of integration and assimilation. “Irish” and “Italian” Americans are assimilated into American culture as their dominant culture, so much so they need their “origin culture” to retain any connection and retain their identity. We have a narrative issue in Europe with a fear of assimilation (at least using the term in a political context), but also have a social expectation of it.
We want foreigners to be enriched by our culture, more than they enrich ours, but we are not committed enough to it as a society.
And that is the really tough pill to swallow. We need to learn from Americans how to do assimilation/integration. So immigrants pick up dominant local customs as their primary culture, so as to need to display their origins to not lose connections to them.
And our failing at doing it like the Americans, means that we are also selling short the immigrants, who actually assimilate into European, national, and local values being dominant.
We need to do better. Especially when losing to the tank…
Seppo 1 Western Europe 0
As an English person who is half Irish and Welsh I wholeheartedly agree with this
Ok let me explain to you this.
2 examples:
One is an Angola 1st generation descendant, both parents are from angola but her paternal grandmother is european (dutch). She was born in Portugal. Fully integrated and if it wasnt for her darker skin color you wouldnt be able to see the difference from native portuguese from her. on everyone’s view she is Portuguese.
Second example is a guy 2nd generation from Cape Verde (one of the parents, dont recall which is portuguese). He lives in a secluded neighborhood with people from cape verde, guine and angola. He refuses to integrate and is known to attack non african descendant people. He speaks creole and has issues with portuguese (considering cape verde has portuguese as the official language). On everyone’s view he is cape verdean.
You may claim your ascendancy. But if you fully integrated on a certain country you belong to that country. If you dismiss your cultural heritage you stop “being from that country” and become a descendent.
I have spanish and french blood yet i do not claim to be from those countries.
The issue of immigrants is not those who fully integrate but those who demand implementation of sharia law and fully stick to their culture. This does not have to be a bad thing (some of the imported culture might be good) however if you refuse to integrate you “arent from the destination country”. There are a region of 4th generation mongolians that still live by their Buddhist culture. And this is fine. Hatred starts when immigrant’s culture starts to clash with ours. If i have freedom stripped due to an immigrant it will cause me an anguish that could develop into hatred towards him.
The US is precisely a country of immigrants. Immigrants who overtook that land.
European nations aren’t. Not until immigrants overtake this territory. And I surely don’t want that to happen.
If you cook “pasta col tonno direttamente dalla scatoletta” when you first go live on your own, you’re Italian to me. Nothing else matters.
No one proudly calls themselves British, so not my problem.
Being Swedish, D*neish, Finnish, German or whatever has nothing to do with skin colour. But everything with culture.
You live in Sweden and act like a swede, cool, you might be green for all that I care.
Then again.. if you act, live and socialise mainly within another culture you are not Swedish.
If you try to impose said other culture on my or my family or someone else you can respectfully fuckoff somewhere else.
Boys.. cute meme but again you all are profoundly confused over the most obvious things? You are Norwegian if you are a Norwegian citizen. Nobody cares what you identify as.
I’ve lived most of my life in the us, but since I’m not a citizen I’m not American.
Cute take, but is it possible for the descendants to fail to absorb the core values that are definitive of a country and fail to assimilate? Isn’t nationality more than blood and ethnicity, and more so a mindset?
43 comments
Yes, but remember that accepting this means considering gypsies as your people. The European middle point is better.
https://preview.redd.it/ax7nr8bsfp9d1.jpeg?width=230&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85745963c0e1f9de3df2317e64ffe40a5290c2d0
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no
Two words: Nation state
we are tropically fucked.
Bold of you to assume that the American LARPers and actual bigots in this sub can read sentences that long.
But americans are cringe
Oh damn! We’re trapped now!
Based barry
It’s the age old question of nature vs nurture
It depends on how many generations.
If both parents are born in America they’re no longer Irish.
The number of times you see an ‘Irishman’ taking the mick out of an “Irish American”, then discover that they are second or third gen “London Irish’….
Fuck skin colour, place of birth or any other arbitrary shit.
The way to see if someone is Italian is by checking if they still live with their mother aged 35.
Whereas the way to see if someone is American is to ask how many active shooter drills they went through at school. If the answer is >0 they’re American.
It’s not that difficult.
Personally I think – regardless of where you are legally from – whether or not I think you really belong in a country is purely cultural. Americans with Scottish ancestry aren’t Scottish because their entire understanding of Scottish culture is based on Braveheart, likewise there are people born here who don’t share any of our cultural values and I wouldn’t consider them truly Scottish either.
It’s also not a binary thing either, someone living here long enough and embracing the culture will slowly become more and more Scottish.
Counterpoint: ius soli citizenship is itself an american institution that’s almost unheard of in the old world. Europe is made of nation-states, not immigrant melting pots. Op just internalized american culture, likely because of too much exposure to american media.
OK, German Americans are Germans, rather claim them than Mohammed who does not speak German either although his family has lived here for 50+ years
The converse is also true
Well the question is rather how those people consider themselves, what value of said country they are willing to represent and how well they are willing to integrate.
The 57% of French-born Muslims aged 15-25 considering the Sharia Law to be above the République and its laws are kind of forsaking their Frenchiness themselves if you ask me.
https://www.lepoint.fr/politique/pour-57-des-jeunes-musulmans-la-charia-plus-importante-que-la-republique-05-11-2020-2399511_20.php#11
OooooooO!
I do accept them if they’re born here, but msny decendants of imigrants reject that and say they’re not British they’re Pakistani, or Jamaican or whatever. When I say if you were born here you’re British, they call me ignorant and racist. Go figure.
If you’d rather have your child dead than LGBT+ you don’t belong in western europe
simple as
edit: note how I didn’t refer to trans people in my initial comment aside from the single letter ‘T’
also note how quickly people start to target them
Awwwww maaan don’t need that
Don’t look at Greeks. For us, Tom Hanks is Greek re malaka.
Savage in disguise detected
Ethnicity, culture and nationality are 3 entirely different concepts.
Whether someone respects and follows the culture of a country or not is the deciding factor on their nationality because that’s the only real thing that differentiates countries.
What was that? I can’t hear you over all the DÖP DÖDÖDÖDÖP
Most european countries practice ius sanguinis, not ius soli.
And rightly so.
sir, i didn’t come here to have rational conversations
don’t care, still not accepting either of them, you’re mad
If you feel Swedish, talk Swedish and act Swedish then you are Swedish in my book. It doesn’t matter the colour of your skin or hair. It brings a tear to my eyes when I see immigrants who take heed of our culture, speak our language and pay taxes.
Right-wingers just don’t get this, or they don’t want to get this. How are we going to move past the immigration issues if we don’t allow these people to “become Swedish”? If we give them no avenue to *be* Swedish then of course they’re going to set up their own camps in the suburbs where they don’t feel like outsiders, which causes just more segregation and all the problems worse.
They’re here now, now we have to deal with it. We are shooting ourselves in the foot if we don’t let them become Swedes because they look different. It’s purely self-preservation from a logical standpoint, working against that is working against a functioning society.
The irony is that the far-right, not just in this country, are the ones cheering the most when a terror attack happens by some “brown folks”. They’re just sitting there hoping one happens.
They get all the ammunition they want if a terror attack happens in Paris during the Olympics or some dumbass does some shit in the name of Islam in Sweden.
Edit: I should say right-wingers on the extreme end. Both our left and right have sat on their hands for the past 2 decades and are finally starting to do something about it. Change was needed. Immigration is fine but it needs to be in moderation, not like we have been doing. 2015 we took in 165k immigrants, which is over 1.5% of our population, in just 1 year. There no way that works with the biggest welfare state in the world, no matter how you crunch the numbers.
Yeah and?
No these are two things. You can be fake “Turk” because you have some ancestors and also not fit into the other scociety. The thing is they aren’t popular in their home country either.
This man woke up today and chose violence.
I was born and lived in Barryland til I was 8. My family moved back to my mother’s hometown in Ireland.
I consider myself Irish because I know how Ireland works. I know how it feels. How it thinks.
I do not know these things about Barryland. The few times ive gone there, the place felt different to home. People’s views were different. They didn’t understand the nuances of my humour. I am not a Barry.
I recently moved to the Netherlands. It feels different. It thinks different. I can’t assume things work a certain way. New situations are stressful in a way they are not at home. I am not a swamp German.
Irish-Americans are American. Italian-americans are American.
Good point.
Of course there is a matter of integration and assimilation. “Irish” and “Italian” Americans are assimilated into American culture as their dominant culture, so much so they need their “origin culture” to retain any connection and retain their identity. We have a narrative issue in Europe with a fear of assimilation (at least using the term in a political context), but also have a social expectation of it.
We want foreigners to be enriched by our culture, more than they enrich ours, but we are not committed enough to it as a society.
And that is the really tough pill to swallow. We need to learn from Americans how to do assimilation/integration. So immigrants pick up dominant local customs as their primary culture, so as to need to display their origins to not lose connections to them.
And our failing at doing it like the Americans, means that we are also selling short the immigrants, who actually assimilate into European, national, and local values being dominant.
We need to do better.
Especially when losing to the tank…
Seppo 1
Western Europe 0
As an English person who is half Irish and Welsh I wholeheartedly agree with this
Ok let me explain to you this.
2 examples:
One is an Angola 1st generation descendant, both parents are from angola but her paternal grandmother is european (dutch). She was born in Portugal. Fully integrated and if it wasnt for her darker skin color you wouldnt be able to see the difference from native portuguese from her. on everyone’s view she is Portuguese.
Second example is a guy 2nd generation from Cape Verde (one of the parents, dont recall which is portuguese). He lives in a secluded neighborhood with people from cape verde, guine and angola. He refuses to integrate and is known to attack non african descendant people. He speaks creole and has issues with portuguese (considering cape verde has portuguese as the official language). On everyone’s view he is cape verdean.
You may claim your ascendancy. But if you fully integrated on a certain country you belong to that country. If you dismiss your cultural heritage you stop “being from that country” and become a descendent.
I have spanish and french blood yet i do not claim to be from those countries.
The issue of immigrants is not those who fully integrate but those who demand implementation of sharia law and fully stick to their culture. This does not have to be a bad thing (some of the imported culture might be good) however if you refuse to integrate you “arent from the destination country”. There are a region of 4th generation mongolians that still live by their Buddhist culture. And this is fine. Hatred starts when immigrant’s culture starts to clash with ours. If i have freedom stripped due to an immigrant it will cause me an anguish that could develop into hatred towards him.
The US is precisely a country of immigrants. Immigrants who overtook that land.
European nations aren’t. Not until immigrants overtake this territory. And I surely don’t want that to happen.
If you cook “pasta col tonno direttamente dalla scatoletta” when you first go live on your own, you’re Italian to me. Nothing else matters.
No one proudly calls themselves British, so not my problem.
Being Swedish, D*neish, Finnish, German or whatever has nothing to do with skin colour.
But everything with culture.
You live in Sweden and act like a swede, cool, you might be green for all that I care.
Then again.. if you act, live and socialise mainly within another culture you are not Swedish.
If you try to impose said other culture on my or my family or someone else you can respectfully fuckoff somewhere else.
Boys.. cute meme but again you all are profoundly confused over the most obvious things? You are Norwegian if you are a Norwegian citizen. Nobody cares what you identify as.
I’ve lived most of my life in the us, but since I’m not a citizen I’m not American.
Cute take, but is it possible for the descendants to fail to absorb the core values that are definitive of a country and fail to assimilate? Isn’t nationality more than blood and ethnicity, and more so a
mindset?