‘You should be ashamed’: Iain Dale vs Russia apologist | LBC debate

‘You should be ashamed’: Iain Dale vs Russia apologist | LBC debate

right a text question here from Mech who says since deescalation you Ukraine has since the deescalation in the Ukraine war has been mentioned what is the the panel stance on Russia and how do we ensure deescalation um Clive um we totally opposed the invasion of Ukraine we support the rights of ukrainians to determine their own fate we also support workers in Russia who are organizing against P attempting to organize against Putin but we have also have to understand that Putin is a product of the West as well in fact let’s you know without um trading on too many toes the Tory party should hand back the donations they got from Russian oligarchs for example you know they and actually by the way Peter mandon let’s remember him and he’s links in the Aon with uh you um your Russian oligarchs as well um um Putin was encouraged to um you know uh um integrate with the west but only only on on the basis of their commodity production and so on and frankly um it was a clash that was coming we oppose uh totally that you know the invasion of Ukraine um and the only solution bluntly is you you to build strong unied movements of workers in the uh across Eastern Europe to resist politicians who are who are um you know perpetuating this terrible War David curton well I’ve spoken about this at length at many times over the last two years and you can’t take what’s happened in the last two years in isolation uh this comes on the back of what the West did the CIA and Victoria newand particularly uh ating a democratically elected president in in uh 2014 yanukovich because he decided he didn’t want to join NATO and he didn’t want to join the EU which is their right what the West has done the collective West has put in a puppet in poreno and then another puppet in zalinski and we’ve encouraged him toi won an election he won an election in 2019 on the basis of peace with Russia and he did a bait and switch uh at the behest of uh the Deep state in the west who basically controled you really have swallowed the Putin propaganda haven’t you that’s not Putin’s propaganda it’s actually reality and it’s actually what I’m talking about so um it’s a very strange reality well it is reality I mean you just interrupted me there so let me just finish and continue um so there was absolutely no need for the West to get involved in this on any side we should have been trying to deescalate from the beginning in February 2020 so we should have just sat back and let Russia invade a sovereign country there was a peace deal in April 2022 that Putin and zalinsky worked out in turkey with erdogan uh Boris Johnson went to zalinski just after that and the next thing we know zinski said no we’re not going to make this is pure Putin propag actually what’s happened I’m not ashamed of myself and I’m actually saying the reality of the situ how much land should we let Russia take then well if we had not gone in and and uh agitated this and escalated and supported zilinsky to escalate there wouldn’t have been any land taken at all obviously you had the dones and luhansk people’s republics who were Russian who have been bombed by neo-nazis attached the zalinski regime for eight years you might as well have Vladimir Putin set Where You Are I mean that’s just an you’re absolute disgrace absolute disgrace ab and you it was meant to be it was meant to be should sorry I’m not going to have you’re not calling me a disgrace and that is really not good moderation because that well it may not be good moderation but I’m just reflecting every single person listening to this program is saying and we need to deescalate you’re not going to like what I’ve got to say here fine I’ll tell you what it is I agree with him almost 100% about everything you don’t surprise me at all well there you go but the thing is this a lot of people like to think to themselves that this is all Putin propaganda it really isn’t this is reality the fact is we got a mainstream media that’s telling us how to think how to do things I am not a Putin apologist I couldn’t whatever about Putin okay but the point is the people of Ukraine have been put in a position to be at war with Russia for no reason whatsoever apart from the fact that Russia was they want listen they wanted peace or they were told they’re going to have peace and they chose not and the Americans and Boris Johnson and everything else have decided to carry on feeding money every single day to this to the to the you let me to the Ukraine sorry it’s making a noise to the ukrainians and all they’re doing is trying to weaken Russia so they think all they’re doing is money laundering money for weapons industry from the military industrial complex and anything else you want to say about it for me I’m 100% with him and I’m not a Putin apologist I’m actually a realist the mainstream media make wanted to make us feel like we’re Putin apologist we’re not we’re looking at what’s happened time we ukrainians have died we got to stop that um I thought you asked me first you haven’t William yet but oh sorry I’m Happ I’m so pulled by what he said forgotten your I have a slightly different I think the Russian invasion of Ukraine was utterly reprehensible and I think any nation state Democrat has to stand with Ukraine in this Basics absolute Basics um I think the West is in a an awful position because 85% of the population of the world um is represented by states that don’t take this seriously at all and is uh trading with Russia without any problem at all that’s the difficulty we’ve got really the people that are standing with Ukraine in this uh which you describe as sort of nation state Democrats and so on um are Canada the United States the EU uh South Korea Japan it’s not you know the rest of the world is taking all the fungible assets all the oil and that’s the problem um now in terms of a I I don’t want this conflict escalated I’ve argued one or two Tor MPS were arguing for the irf to uh intercept Russian aircraft inside Ukraine I’m against that sort of escalation I think that’s very foolish how do you deescalate it that was a question the sad thing is Ian I think the I think I I have doubts as to whether Russia can be beaten as the problem and I don’t I think um I I fear the worst actually for Ukraine I think it’ll go on until Russia decides to stop and I think actually the other thing that people don’t um think about but actually partition is very uh common in conflicts after Armistice I mean it’s not just the history of Ukraine is already partitioning and that’s the yeah and you won’t and the old Kissinger thing you won’t get back at the um at the pce talks what you don’t have on the ground that’s a sad thing it’s an absolute disaster can I just add one thing that my personal opinion on K starma is this and and George Gallow said it and I’ll say it again I think within six months if he gets the majority that he gets we’re going to end up with British troops on the ground in the Ukraine because we’ve got a media that’s feeding us how we should go and save this save that I’m against that I think we we need to make sure that our troops don’t end up going into a hot war zone okay for other people that was going to happen it would have happened already no it’s going to happen when he ends up with a 400 when he gets a 400 seat majority don’t go I’ve got the Mandate of the people to do whatever I want including getting our troops I mean he’s already got 900 troops in Estonia or somewhere else in those places and I can’t see them not doing that a lot of people are experts seriously um I’m a bit staggered really because um we seem to be forgetting nobody or no ordinary person in the Ukraine or in Russia benefits one inch from this war that’s the reality that’s true you that’s um uh uh the you know the the Russian speakers in Ukraine who were discriminated against under the old under the Ukrainian regime um are not being you are not enjoying life in the denk provinces or in Crimea now let’s be blunt about it and the reality is is that it’s hard to see a Way Forward except there is war weariness the Russ Russia if it has another round of conscription there’ be more opposition there um there’s opposition now growing in Ukraine against the war as well and we have to rely ultimately on the people um of the two countries saying enough is enough you know it sounds um optimistic or or or or utopian but but frankly this is a war that has no benefit for orary people I’ll tell you one one thing our listeners seem to be agreed on judging and I’m scrolling through all these texts here which hos can see but the other three can’t If he if he wants to see doesn’t make very very good reading for you or David people are absolutely apped by what you’ve both said absolutely does not bother me in the least and we will move on to a different subject maybe with more agreement

The small party hustings gets heated when panellists respond to the question: What is the panel’s stance on Russia and how do we ensure de-escalation?

0:00 Listener Mick asks the panellists stance on Russia
0:16 TUSC ‘totally oppose’ invasion of Ukraine
0:36 Putin is a ‘product’ of the West
2:07 The West have put a ‘puppet’ in Zelenskyy, says David Kurten
2:22 Iain Dale accuses David Kurten of ‘swallowing Putin propaganda’
3:04 ‘How much land should we let Russia take then?’, asks Iain Dale
3:35 Iain Dale calls David Kurten an ‘absolute disgrace’
3:54 Hoz Shafiei agrees with David Kurten
5:24 William Clouston says the Russian invasion was ‘reprehensible’
6:42 William Clouston ‘fears the worst’ outcome in Ukraine
7:13 British troops will end up on the ground with Labour, says Hoz Shafiei
8.55 We have to rely on people of both countries saying ‘enough is enough’

Listen to the full show on Global Player: https://app.af.globalplayer.com/Br0x/LBCYouTubeListenLive

#iaindale #party #generalelection #debate #hustings #uknews #ukpolitics #LBC

LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK.

Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/
Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup