British Army racism apology to black ‘poster girl’ soldier
August 2, 2024
British Army racism apology to black ‘poster girl’ soldier
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c84jzex9vk8o
by topotaul
17 comments
Some of the quotes in this and other articles about this are wild. I wonder how many people would be left in the military if you sacked all of the ones shouting ‘Watermelon’ at a black woman.
I remember those days when the army’s prime obsession was with winning wars.
Now that we’re no longer concerned about that…..
I do think if you join the army you have to expect a certain level of banter and savagery.
But some of that shit is wild.
>She says she had to serve alongside soldiers who claimed to support the far-right groups – the Ku Klux Klan, Britain First and English Defence League.
Some of that shit is utterly unacceptable and 100% racism. Being told not to braid your hair is not.
Of course there are racists in the army. It’s a reflection of society. How the chain of command can let schwasticas and confederate flags hang in lines I have no idea. Something is clearly very wrong in that unit; intelligence corps it looks like. You’d think of all the cap badges, they’d know better.
> During one of her first postings, to Germany, she was told to avoid a certain corridor because soldiers were openly displaying swastikas, Confederate flags and other symbols associated with the far right
Displaying nazi symbols is also illegal in Germany.
You can tell it’s the BBC when they try to put all of these in the same group: the Ku Klux Klan, Britain First and English Defence League
Defund it
Served for 10 years and left only as a corporal? What? Maybe she just wasn’t very good,
The Army has become a place where the lowly educated go.
That’s not to say everyone in the army is lowly educated. But it’s one of the big things people who leave school with no direction are pointed towards. It’s no surprise that you get these types of people fostering a culture like that. Especially when your prime recruiting grounds are places like poverty stricken seaside towns.
There’s a strong correlation between intelligence and racism.
I don’t doubt the veracity of her claims for a single second
Still don’t understand why black people or any PoC want to serve when all you get in return is this and lack of respect in the general populace as well. Its been known for a while that the military is not welcoming and completely disrespectful to PoC’s. But then again I wanted to serve till everything about the culture of the military came out to the public.
Weak people do not belong to military, if words hurt you…. I am sorry, but you don’t belong there, western first world countries are the only place with issues like this.
These are the soldiers we’re supposed to thank and admire for protecting us against .. something unspecific. Sod them.
What she went through was fucking awful and it’s right that the armed services should be raked over the coals for this. I’m very concerned of the casual racism along with sympathy for far right movements in the armed services. This will have a knock on effect of pushing out unit cohesion and embolding people who are far right to have access to skills that may further there aim.
So,
Been in 15 years. Over that period, I have witnessed the following (but not limited to).
· An SP having a gollywog Facebook page on the side because he thought it was funny
· An SP dating someone in there CofC who was a hell of a lot younger.
· A commissioned Colonel Dating an 18 year old officer cadet while he was married and substantially older.
· Seniors playing openly racist mess games.
· Told never to put anything into the comments section of an SJAR as its considered “career suicide”.
· Seeing a colleague raise a service complaint, witness the horrible closing of ranks and outright lies told by others resulting in him almost committing suicide.
· People promoted because they were “like” but incompetent.
· The invers of the above.
· About 100 DEI initiatives that always seems to happen after incidents like this (recent one being the failed OP Teamwork).
· General racism and sexism.
The army suffers as it has a toxic cauldron of enabling factors. It requires its CofC to be able to operate without oversight or challenge as this is something that’s needed in a time of war. The problem is that the environment needed in conflict is different from that when in barracks and there is not an easy solution to this.
However I think an independent HR department accessible by all SPs is maybe a start but that’s me shooting from the HIP.
>The Army claims it has a zero tolerance policy of unacceptable behaviours
What does ‘Zero tolerance’ mean? Well according to the Defence select committee:
>As of 31 August 2023, 56 service personnel have been found to have engaged in unacceptable sexual behaviour committed since 19 November 2022 under the zero tolerance policy, which you have just been talking about. But 44 out of 55 were retained,
Just a few bad apple’s I’m sure. Add them to the list:
For those who are reading these comments wanting to see what the typical serving person’s thoughts are on the article, you should take these two points also into consideration:
1. Reddit, regardless of the subject matter, tends to be more left and liberal leaning (on average)- the opinions you are reading here are of the more central-to-progressive sides of armed forces personnel.
2. There are people in the comments not only arguing whether what was said was even *wrong*, let alone if it was even racism was the cause for discrimination she faced.
17 comments
Some of the quotes in this and other articles about this are wild. I wonder how many people would be left in the military if you sacked all of the ones shouting ‘Watermelon’ at a black woman.
I remember those days when the army’s prime obsession was with winning wars.
Now that we’re no longer concerned about that…..
I do think if you join the army you have to expect a certain level of banter and savagery.
But some of that shit is wild.
>She says she had to serve alongside soldiers who claimed to support the far-right groups – the Ku Klux Klan, Britain First and English Defence League.
[Not surprising and not the first time the UKs military has been revealed to have a big racism problem.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67697653)
Some of that shit is utterly unacceptable and 100% racism. Being told not to braid your hair is not.
Of course there are racists in the army. It’s a reflection of society. How the chain of command can let schwasticas and confederate flags hang in lines I have no idea. Something is clearly very wrong in that unit; intelligence corps it looks like. You’d think of all the cap badges, they’d know better.
> During one of her first postings, to Germany, she was told to avoid a certain corridor because soldiers were openly displaying swastikas, Confederate flags and other symbols associated with the far right
Displaying nazi symbols is also illegal in Germany.
You can tell it’s the BBC when they try to put all of these in the same group:
the Ku Klux Klan, Britain First and English Defence League
Defund it
Served for 10 years and left only as a corporal? What? Maybe she just wasn’t very good,
The Army has become a place where the lowly educated go.
That’s not to say everyone in the army is lowly educated. But it’s one of the big things people who leave school with no direction are pointed towards. It’s no surprise that you get these types of people fostering a culture like that. Especially when your prime recruiting grounds are places like poverty stricken seaside towns.
There’s a strong correlation between intelligence and racism.
I don’t doubt the veracity of her claims for a single second
Still don’t understand why black people or any PoC want to serve when all you get in return is this and lack of respect in the general populace as well. Its been known for a while that the military is not welcoming and completely disrespectful to PoC’s. But then again I wanted to serve till everything about the culture of the military came out to the public.
Weak people do not belong to military, if words hurt you…. I am sorry, but you don’t belong there, western first world countries are the only place with issues like this.
These are the soldiers we’re supposed to thank and admire for protecting us against .. something unspecific. Sod them.
What she went through was fucking awful and it’s right that the armed services should be raked over the coals for this. I’m very concerned of the casual racism along with sympathy for far right movements in the armed services. This will have a knock on effect of pushing out unit cohesion and embolding people who are far right to have access to skills that may further there aim.
So,
Been in 15 years. Over that period, I have witnessed the following (but not limited to).
· An SP having a gollywog Facebook page on the side because he thought it was funny
· An SP dating someone in there CofC who was a hell of a lot younger.
· A commissioned Colonel Dating an 18 year old officer cadet while he was married and substantially older.
· Seniors playing openly racist mess games.
· Told never to put anything into the comments section of an SJAR as its considered “career suicide”.
· Seeing a colleague raise a service complaint, witness the horrible closing of ranks and outright lies told by others resulting in him almost committing suicide.
· People promoted because they were “like” but incompetent.
· The invers of the above.
· About 100 DEI initiatives that always seems to happen after incidents like this (recent one being the failed OP Teamwork).
· General racism and sexism.
The army suffers as it has a toxic cauldron of enabling factors. It requires its CofC to be able to operate without oversight or challenge as this is something that’s needed in a time of war. The problem is that the environment needed in conflict is different from that when in barracks and there is not an easy solution to this.
However I think an independent HR department accessible by all SPs is maybe a start but that’s me shooting from the HIP.
>The Army claims it has a zero tolerance policy of unacceptable behaviours
What does ‘Zero tolerance’ mean? Well according to the Defence select committee:
>As of 31 August 2023, 56 service personnel have been found to have engaged in unacceptable sexual behaviour committed since 19 November 2022 under the zero tolerance policy, which you have just been talking about. But 44 out of 55 were retained,
Just a few bad apple’s I’m sure. Add them to the list:
* [Abusing Muslim soldiers going to mosque and refusing to let them observe ramadan](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/03/british-army-admits-soldier-was-victim-of-anti-islamic-bias)
* [Multiple Rapes reported year on year at their training colleges ](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-67029221)
* [Instructor convicted of sexual assault](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21516735/army-corporal-sexual-assault-teen-girl-recruits/)
* [Instructor convicted of sex with a child](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13318315/British-Army-corporal-sex-teen-recruit-jailed.html)
* [Major General forcefully kissing a junior officer without their consent](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngwg1egjpo)
* [Inquiry into sexual assaults in the submarine core](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/28/royal-navy-chief-orders-investigation-into-abhorrent-allegations-of-bullying-misogyny-and-sexual-harassment)
* [19 year old kills herself after multiple senior officer sexually harassed and exploited her ](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66982160)
* [Red arrows in special measures over sexual harassment](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-67417428)
* [Playful ‘banter’ about the cover up of murdered Nigerian sexworker](https://bylinetimes.com/2021/11/22/toxic-banter-on-military-forum-over-kenyan-womans-death-exposes-gross-misogyny-in-armed-forces/)
* [rampant sexual harassment in the Civil service wing ](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/21/civil-service-unions-inquiry-sexual-harassment-mod)
* [Court-martialling someone who wanted to informally discuss an incident they viewed as racist](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67697653)
For those who are reading these comments wanting to see what the typical serving person’s thoughts are on the article, you should take these two points also into consideration:
1. Reddit, regardless of the subject matter, tends to be more left and liberal leaning (on average)- the opinions you are reading here are of the more central-to-progressive sides of armed forces personnel.
2. There are people in the comments not only arguing whether what was said was even *wrong*, let alone if it was even racism was the cause for discrimination she faced.
Shocking.