HomeEurope80 years ago, the port city of Le Havre in Normandie was under heavy bombing form the British bomber command. This bombing lasted for 3 days, killed 2000 civilians and destroyed 85% of the city center and doing no damage on the nazi garrison.
80 years ago, the port city of Le Havre in Normandie was under heavy bombing form the British bomber command. This bombing lasted for 3 days, killed 2000 civilians and destroyed 85% of the city center and doing no damage on the nazi garrison.
September 10, 2024
80 years ago, the port city of Le Havre in Normandie was under heavy bombing form the British bomber command. This bombing lasted for 3 days, killed 2000 civilians and destroyed 85% of the city center and doing no damage on the nazi garrison.
https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1fdevk3
by Sexy-Spaghetti
28 comments
These bombings happened when the British and Canadian forces encircled the city in september 1944. Allied Commander Crocker proposed a surrender to the German commander Wildermuth, which he refused. Wildermuth proposed a 2 day cease-fire to evacuate civilians, which Crocker refused. Crocker then requested a bombing of the city to force the germans to surrender, which the Bomber Command translated as “carpet bomb the city”. Which they did. Between the 5th and 9th of september, 10 000 tons of explosive bombs, and 175 tons of incendiary bombs were dropped on the city center, which according to British historian Andrew Knapp, was devoid of military targets. The bombings killed around 2000 french civilians and made 80 000 homeless, by destroying 85% of the city center, without any damage to the german garrison or their morale.
Following this bombing, on the 10th and 11th, the British bombed the heights of the city, where the Germans had their defensive positions, in preparation for a ground assault. On the 12th the Allies launched their assault, Operation Astonia, and liberated the city the same day. The local newspaper titled “We were waiting for you with joy, we welcome you with grief”.
Le Havre was a crucial objective for the Allied logistics as it was the main deep water port in northen France. The city’s bombing and rush to liberate it might be explained by this factor. Though it is still a crime that the British, knowingly bombed residential areas, knowing full well there were no military targets and refused to evacuate civilians.
The city’s reconstruction would begin in 1945 and officialy end in the mid 1960’s. The rebuilt city center was added as a UNESCO world heritage site in 2005.
What was the British explanation for bombing the civilian areas if they knew there were no Germans there? Presumably there were questions from allied command?
I’d be interested in reading more as according to Wikipedia it was designated a “fortress city” by Hitler that must not be abandoned and defended to the last man.
Yet the German garrison of over 11000 surrendered within three days of the ground attack starting so I feel there must have been some cause and effect there?
I wonder if, by that point, the German army just wasn’t trusted to allow the civilians to leave that they said they would?
Can you imagine if that was us stuck in the city and had no where to go.. this is a good example why we need to stop Russia before they make us all victims to collateral damage
Only good news is Le Havre now has wide avenues and convenient city layout.
My experience is that what they gained in convenience, they lost in appeal, cause most of their buildings are sad concrete architecture. But that’s just my opinion.
Time to say le’ sorry?
Aww damn. It is 80 years ago. Why do you downvote me? Ok, ok. I am le’ sorry. 🙁
Come on, please, can’t you just write your post correctly ? This title is full of mistakes !
Bomber Harris doing one of his criminally inaccurate city renovations. Did wonders for Nijmegen as well.
That head of the bomber guy harris. I wouldn’t give him a job as janitor. He has no strategic understanding.
Of course, civilian deaths are horrendous in any way, shape, or form. But the bombing did have effect as the destruction of infrastructure and communication hindered the German ability to defend themselves and also cut off the possibility of reinforcements reaching the city.
When looking at events from a long time ago (WW2 is becoming that kind of event) it is very easy to cast blame and judge harshly. However, the people doing this do it from the comfort of their homes, without having had to make a difficult decision throughout their lives, probably living somewhat comfortably. All because of harsh, sometimes wrong decisions taken before they were born.
I hope and imagine that people taking part in actions such as the bombing of Le Havre did have regrets or simply did so because they were living extraordinarily difficult times when difficult decisions had to be made. For many it is hard to imagine, but in some situations you cannot simply choose between a wrong and a right course of action. Sometimes you have to choose the slightly less destructive path. Because of this I try not to quickly assign blame or judge harshly.
It’s inspiration for ruZZians. Just look at some Avdiivka, Mariupol or other Ukrainian cities, which they destroyed to grab. There are many panel buildings there, they are looking different after significant shelling or direct strike. But it’s the same
I don’t think they were aiming for the german garrison.
None of the participants of WW2 were too concerned about loss of civilian life, really.
Your welcome.
And later they killed the ruler of Ukraine, lol.
Average allied bombing campaign. You also can’t tell me that most of the attacks on cities weren’t done to kill the civilians as their bomber sights were worse than useless and they knew it
Imagine that in context of our age.
The most frequent British war tactic: Whenever in doubt, attack the French!
Hoppla
Typical British bombers in WW2. The intelligence of a piece of toast
sounds like a war crime, doesnt it?
Why can’t people admit that the allies did some mistakes in WW2? Your side not being perfect doesn’t make it worse or equal to the nazis, THEY’RE THE BLOODY NAZIS, everytime it’s “yes, they fucked up BUT it was a total war so it’s ok” or “but they were fighting the nazis so it’s ok” fuck off, I am grateful to the people that gave their lives to save Europe but we can’t ignore the bad stuff countries did just because they did something good.
Unfortunately from the north to the south English and American bombers decimated villages and towns for very little gain from it.
28 comments
These bombings happened when the British and Canadian forces encircled the city in september 1944. Allied Commander Crocker proposed a surrender to the German commander Wildermuth, which he refused. Wildermuth proposed a 2 day cease-fire to evacuate civilians, which Crocker refused. Crocker then requested a bombing of the city to force the germans to surrender, which the Bomber Command translated as “carpet bomb the city”. Which they did. Between the 5th and 9th of september, 10 000 tons of explosive bombs, and 175 tons of incendiary bombs were dropped on the city center, which according to British historian Andrew Knapp, was devoid of military targets. The bombings killed around 2000 french civilians and made 80 000 homeless, by destroying 85% of the city center, without any damage to the german garrison or their morale.
Following this bombing, on the 10th and 11th, the British bombed the heights of the city, where the Germans had their defensive positions, in preparation for a ground assault. On the 12th the Allies launched their assault, Operation Astonia, and liberated the city the same day. The local newspaper titled “We were waiting for you with joy, we welcome you with grief”.
Le Havre was a crucial objective for the Allied logistics as it was the main deep water port in northen France. The city’s bombing and rush to liberate it might be explained by this factor. Though it is still a crime that the British, knowingly bombed residential areas, knowing full well there were no military targets and refused to evacuate civilians.
The city’s reconstruction would begin in 1945 and officialy end in the mid 1960’s. The rebuilt city center was added as a UNESCO world heritage site in 2005.
[Starting to see a trend here](https://www.reddit.com/r/polandball/comments/c0j4ht/the_battle_for_caen_1944/)
Yikes.
Yeah, carpet bombing wasn’t the greatest idea.
What was the British explanation for bombing the civilian areas if they knew there were no Germans there? Presumably there were questions from allied command?
I’d be interested in reading more as according to Wikipedia it was designated a “fortress city” by Hitler that must not be abandoned and defended to the last man.
Yet the German garrison of over 11000 surrendered within three days of the ground attack starting so I feel there must have been some cause and effect there?
I wonder if, by that point, the German army just wasn’t trusted to allow the civilians to leave that they said they would?
Can you imagine if that was us stuck in the city and had no where to go.. this is a good example why we need to stop Russia before they make us all victims to collateral damage
Only good news is Le Havre now has wide avenues and convenient city layout.
My experience is that what they gained in convenience, they lost in appeal, cause most of their buildings are sad concrete architecture. But that’s just my opinion.
Time to say le’ sorry?
Aww damn. It is 80 years ago. Why do you downvote me?
Ok, ok.
I am le’ sorry. 🙁
Come on, please, can’t you just write your post correctly ? This title is full of mistakes !
Bomber Harris doing one of his criminally inaccurate city renovations. Did wonders for Nijmegen as well.
That head of the bomber guy harris. I wouldn’t give him a job as janitor. He has no strategic understanding.
Of course, civilian deaths are horrendous in any way, shape, or form. But the bombing did have effect as the destruction of infrastructure and communication hindered the German ability to defend themselves and also cut off the possibility of reinforcements reaching the city.
When looking at events from a long time ago (WW2 is becoming that kind of event) it is very easy to cast blame and judge harshly. However, the people doing this do it from the comfort of their homes, without having had to make a difficult decision throughout their lives, probably living somewhat comfortably. All because of harsh, sometimes wrong decisions taken before they were born.
I hope and imagine that people taking part in actions such as the bombing of Le Havre did have regrets or simply did so because they were living extraordinarily difficult times when difficult decisions had to be made. For many it is hard to imagine, but in some situations you cannot simply choose between a wrong and a right course of action. Sometimes you have to choose the slightly less destructive path. Because of this I try not to quickly assign blame or judge harshly.
It’s inspiration for ruZZians. Just look at some Avdiivka, Mariupol or other Ukrainian cities, which they destroyed to grab. There are many panel buildings there, they are looking different after significant shelling or direct strike. But it’s the same
Hmmm where have I seen this before [Maybe here?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Pforzheim_in_World_War_II)
I don’t think they were aiming for the german garrison.
None of the participants of WW2 were too concerned about loss of civilian life, really.
Your welcome.
And later they killed the ruler of Ukraine, lol.
Average allied bombing campaign. You also can’t tell me that most of the attacks on cities weren’t done to kill the civilians as their bomber sights were worse than useless and they knew it
Imagine that in context of our age.
The most frequent British war tactic: Whenever in doubt, attack the French!
Hoppla
Typical British bombers in WW2. The intelligence of a piece of toast
sounds like a war crime, doesnt it?
Why can’t people admit that the allies did some mistakes in WW2? Your side not being perfect doesn’t make it worse or equal to the nazis, THEY’RE THE BLOODY NAZIS, everytime it’s “yes, they fucked up BUT it was a total war so it’s ok” or “but they were fighting the nazis so it’s ok” fuck off, I am grateful to the people that gave their lives to save Europe but we can’t ignore the bad stuff countries did just because they did something good.
Unfortunately from the north to the south English and American bombers decimated villages and towns for very little gain from it.
Job well done
Looks like hiroshima. -no nukes.