Especially when you consider that basically all the third party candidates are/were funded by conservatives.
Have the head of the 3rd party have a photo I with the fascist leader.
Government and politics are all about compromises. I will never understand someone who would prefer to get nothing rather than 60-70% of what they want.
Left bashing classics. Why don’t you compromise more with the fascists and adopt more of their policies you called Draconian 4 years ago.
Complicit in genocide. Both parties are fascist abroad, and you’re being ahistorical if you think that fascism won’t come home to roost later.
By the way fun thing you can criticize a party every single day up to an election to push them away from fascism and still quietly vote for “the lesser of two evils” and the liberal push to force progressives to shut up, comply and endorse the dems is at its core undemocratic.
Edit: spot the lie or keep down voting and encourage the further rightward push.
This is how Roe got overturned and thousands of families got torn apart at the border.
It is also estimated that 100’s of thousands of unnecessary deaths were caused by Trump treating Covid as a political issue rather than a public health one.
So sure, wait for perfect. What’s the worst that can happen?
This is why preferential voting is required. Everywhere! cpg grey on you tube has a couple of videos that explain it perfectly.
Rank choice voting, NOW!
When do we want it? NOW
The Bernie Bro effect. The Republican party thanks them for their generous contribution.
You can’t fault people for voting their principles. I personally view voting as harm reduction and vote as such, but I can’t begrudge someone not voting in the duopoly. If people didn’t vote duopoly we may have never gotten trump in the first place.
Many “leftists” on reddit are educated conservatives using pedantry to further divide anyone with a shred of decency and villainizing “liberals” (knowing that right wing media equates leftists and liberals, so this *only* hurts the progressive parties.)
Many people pushing for “perfect” policies (without acknowledging the time, effort, and steps it takes to get to that legislation) and demonizing the steps to get there, are saboteurs. (See the cannabis legalization movement.)
How screwed up is our election system when people are shamed for voting their principles instead of making a binary choice?
Fun fact: The news has already ran stories about how Harris and Harris/ Walz is to far left of center to win in a general election. This is absolutely going to be every news channel’s talking point if they do not win this November.
Withholding your vote because you don’t think the Dems are “left” enough for your tastes will have 100% the opposite reaction from the party.
Also, that fact was not actually fun
had a conversation with a friend the other day that basically went
“what if we let trump win again so the pendulum swings even harder next time”
harris/walz are as progressive liberal as it gets. they want to go back to the status quo like a lot of people do… but the status quo is the reason why we’re here now. we need actual meaningful changes and not course corrections. biden went pretty far into the right to meet MAGA and it’s dimwits where they stand, harris plans on continuing that tradition as well.
and for the love of god
liberal ≠ left leaning
Basically 2016 all over again. I know several people that voted third party then because somehow Hillary was as bad as Trump in their minds. I just sit silent as they explain their rationale.
I agree with the post and I truly understand where it’s coming from
But I really wish the Democrats would realize it’s easier to motivate 100 progressives than it is to convert 10 Trump supporters
When Kamala does things like reverse her stance on universal healthcare, it hurts her more than helps her and that’s not talked about enough
“But I stuck to my principals!!!” (Fuck the country)
Third party voters are as clueless and destructive to our democracy as Magas and I’ll never forgive them for 2016. I think their ignorance stands out even more for me from that time because they were so obtuse about it, too. They may be what gets us Trump again this time around, too.
Bring this same energy to the upper middle class middle age white voters who call themselves “moderates” but vote republicans. They are the ones who drag the democrat party to the right only for them to not vote Dem.
Nobody is significantly doing this, the DNC is just laying the groundwork of blame for if she loses.
“I have two feet, which one should I shoot?”
Good ol’ fptp
I wish I knew how to link YT videos, because I would link to the Cell v Gohan fight in the abridged series. Cell talks to Gohan about his pacifist mindset and letting people die, but he kept to his moral compass
I guarantee that if Harris loses, the Democratic Party will not shift to the left. It will do what it did in the 90s and shift to the right. Those marginal GOP voters who may be willing to vote Democrat are far more reliable and likely to help Dems win elections than Leftists who seem to think it’s all or nothing when it comes to supporting a politician.
It’s wild that people can post stuff like and think they’ve made some kind of gotcha but actually not realize they are just openly admitting we don’t have democracy in the US
Basically describing any of the tankie subs. Im not sure however if they’re actual basement communists or Russian agents. They basically have the same job though
Yup. I can’t condemn anyone for voting their conscience, but people should know the results of their actions. 3rd party candidates in US presidential elections function only as vote splitters, advantaging the candidate they are least like.
I want to vote for the woman who shows up like a cicada every four years. She does nothing to build her base or show that she’s a real candidate. She is the definition of a spoiler. I hope and pray people don’t fall for her moscow sponsored horseshit again this year.
If Trump gets in he will replace 2 more Supreme Court justices. It will be the end of any progress we have made in this country. It will be over. I don’t understand why people are so small minded. This election is bigger than ever. Please for my gay son’s rights, for my daughter’s rights, for our environment vote blue!
It’s adorable how much of a boogeyman 3rd Parties (and I guess Bernie by association) are to Democrats. It’s like Republicans being afraid of CRT.
“Progressive”
Why do you care so much?? The Harris campaign has decided unwavering support for Israel is their stance. They’re going to lose votes because of that, their goal is to pick up other voters.
Go scream to the moderates and Trump hating republicans, that’s who the Harris campaign is actively targeting, they’re the ones who didn’t come out in the states needed for Hillary.
I’m in a solid blue state, my presidential vote does not matter so I’m not voting for her. I would vote for her if I was in a battleground state. Don’t scream at me either. I understand the threat Trump is. I don’t want him. But this idea that you can shame all these people who were never going to vote for her is just cope. Go rally up the suburban wine moms and others.
Who would a progressive even vote for as third party? No one seems to have that position. Its just some libertarian and Stein. Are people still dumb enough to vote for them? (Retorical question)
>Inexperienced revolutionaries often think that legal methods of struggle are opportunist because, in this field, the bourgeoisie has most frequently deceived and duped the workers (particularly in “peaceful” and non-revolutionary times), while illegal methods of struggle are revolutionary. That, however, is wrong. The truth is that those parties and leaders are opportunists and traitors to the working class that are unable or unwilling (do not say, “I can’t”; say, “I shan’t”) to use illegal methods of struggle in conditions such as those which prevailed, for example, during the imperialist war of 1914–18, when the bourgeoisie of the freest democratic countries most brazenly and brutally deceived the workers, and smothered the truth about the predatory character of the war. But revolutionaries who are incapable of combining illegal forms of struggle with every form of legal struggle are poor revolutionaries indeed. It is not difficult to be a revolutionary when revolution has already broken out and is in spate, when all people are joining the revolution just because they are carried away, because it is the vogue, and sometimes even from careerist motives. After its victory, the proletariat has to make most strenuous efforts, even the most painful, so as to “liberate” itself from such pseudo-revolutionaries. ***It is far more difficult—and far more precious—to be a revolutionary when the conditions for direct, open, really mass and really revolutionary struggle do not yet exist, to be able to champion the interests of the revolution (by propaganda, agitation and organisation) in non-revolutionary bodies, and quite often in downright reactionary bodies, in a non-revolutionary situation, among the masses who are incapable of immediately appreciating the need for revolutionary methods of action.*** To be able to seek, find and correctly determine the specific path or the particular turn of events that will lead the masses to the real, decisive and final revolutionary struggle—such is the main objective of communism in Western Europe and in America today.
Who, apparently, is a weak pseudo-leftist rightwing liberal.
Always reminded of a Hunter S Thompson quote when a post like this pops up.
“How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame but ‘regrettably necessary’ holding actions? And how many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?”
I fundamentally understand that with politics as they are, it’s true that we have no real choice but to vote against fascism…but what if the tens of millions of people who claim dissatisfaction with the current system all cast their votes in a different direction? The closest liberals got to an actual second option in recent years was Bernie, but even he understood that to get into the game he had to run as a Democrat instead of the Democratic Socialist Independent that he’s been for decades.
I work with a couple of people who vote 3rd party because “It’s my right to vote for who I want.” Yes, it is your right. But, a 3rd party candidate will NOT win the presidential election. And, given the choices we have in the presidential race, we either preserve our republic, or we get the Evil Galactic Empire. They just don’t get it. I’ve tried to get them to understand. The saddest part is, these two people hate Trump. They don’t want him to win.
Cutting off your nose to spite OUR faces.
IMO, there is a decent sized chunk of these types whose lives do not notably change based on who is in office. They come from a high enough income bracket where they can stand in their ideals but not suffer much consequence.
I also think another chunk are people who think the current state of things is so hopeless for them, but they need more people to suffer in order to hopefully see the light and join their cause. Letting the world burn until enough people realize they need to gather water.
Yeah how dare someone vote based on their beliefs and values instead of playing the political game where we all lose anyway
There’s this unfortunate line of thought that if things get bad enough, people will rise up, overthrow the capitalist system and usher in a new age for humanity. The trouble with the Accelerationist line of thought is that, historically, that’s not what happens. Not for years, often not for decades. Instead, the authoritarians gradually tighten their hold. The people willing to go along with it are much more prone to violence in general, because an authoritarian state gives them permission to perform that violence.
It does eventually get better but… how long does it take? Is it actually any faster at all? France went through decades of upheaval, war, civil wars… is that what we want for the US? It’s a terrifying prospect given the sheer weight of military force the US can bring to bear. If you think the US is expansionist and imperialist now, what would it become if it stopped competing with Russia and China and instead started carving colonies out of the African continent?
It’s just… I don’t think these people really think through the implications of what an Authoritarian United States would really be like… we do a lot of damage as it is. Why anyone would want to make it actively worse is beyond me.
This is bullshit guilt tripping. No one is entitled to your vote. There is no such thing as spoiler candidates. People play this goddamn fearmongering every 4 years and it’s why nothing changes in this country and why we’re stuck with self serving establishment politicians, because no one is brave enough to stand up for decent principles
As a Leftist, it pains me how much other Leftists let perfect be the enemy of good. So many genuinely believe lesser of two evils is just still evil, but that’s not how politics has ever worked.
Stop looking for a perfect fit and focus on the best choice of the two. That gives you the best chance to have left influence in power and allow progressive rhetoric to leap through
If you can find a third party candidate in the modern age who can poll close to a main party candidate, go nuts. You got a guy coming in at 33% with the other two? Spread your wings my dude
But voting for someone with a >1% chance to win is the same as not voting at all. You don’t have to compromise your morals to not vote the fat racist, vote blue, then on the ground level start campaigning for progressives. Like what most actual progressives do (source: me. Actual progressive)
43 comments
Especially when you consider that basically all the third party candidates are/were funded by conservatives.
Have the head of the 3rd party have a photo I with the fascist leader.
Government and politics are all about compromises. I will never understand someone who would prefer to get nothing rather than 60-70% of what they want.
Left bashing classics. Why don’t you compromise more with the fascists and adopt more of their policies you called Draconian 4 years ago.
Complicit in genocide. Both parties are fascist abroad, and you’re being ahistorical if you think that fascism won’t come home to roost later.
By the way fun thing you can criticize a party every single day up to an election to push them away from fascism and still quietly vote for “the lesser of two evils” and the liberal push to force progressives to shut up, comply and endorse the dems is at its core undemocratic.
Edit: spot the lie or keep down voting and encourage the further rightward push.
This is how Roe got overturned and thousands of families got torn apart at the border.
It is also estimated that 100’s of thousands of unnecessary deaths were caused by Trump treating Covid as a political issue rather than a public health one.
So sure, wait for perfect. What’s the worst that can happen?
This is why preferential voting is required. Everywhere!
cpg grey on you tube has a couple of videos that explain it perfectly.
Rank choice voting, NOW!
When do we want it? NOW
The Bernie Bro effect. The Republican party thanks them for their generous contribution.
You can’t fault people for voting their principles. I personally view voting as harm reduction and vote as such, but I can’t begrudge someone not voting in the duopoly. If people didn’t vote duopoly we may have never gotten trump in the first place.
Many “leftists” on reddit are educated conservatives using pedantry to further divide anyone with a shred of decency and villainizing “liberals” (knowing that right wing media equates leftists and liberals, so this *only* hurts the progressive parties.)
Many people pushing for “perfect” policies (without acknowledging the time, effort, and steps it takes to get to that legislation) and demonizing the steps to get there, are saboteurs. (See the cannabis legalization movement.)
How screwed up is our election system when people are shamed for voting their principles instead of making a binary choice?
Fun fact: The news has already ran stories about how Harris and Harris/ Walz is to far left of center to win in a general election. This is absolutely going to be every news channel’s talking point if they do not win this November.
Withholding your vote because you don’t think the Dems are “left” enough for your tastes will have 100% the opposite reaction from the party.
Also, that fact was not actually fun
had a conversation with a friend the other day that basically went
“what if we let trump win again so the pendulum swings even harder next time”
harris/walz are as progressive liberal as it gets. they want to go back to the status quo like a lot of people do… but the status quo is the reason why we’re here now. we need actual meaningful changes and not course corrections. biden went pretty far into the right to meet MAGA and it’s dimwits where they stand, harris plans on continuing that tradition as well.
and for the love of god
liberal ≠ left leaning
Basically 2016 all over again. I know several people that voted third party then because somehow Hillary was as bad as Trump in their minds. I just sit silent as they explain their rationale.
I agree with the post and I truly understand where it’s coming from
But I really wish the Democrats would realize it’s easier to motivate 100 progressives than it is to convert 10 Trump supporters
When Kamala does things like reverse her stance on universal healthcare, it hurts her more than helps her and that’s not talked about enough
“But I stuck to my principals!!!” (Fuck the country)
Third party voters are as clueless and destructive to our democracy as Magas and I’ll never forgive them for 2016. I think their ignorance stands out even more for me from that time because they were so obtuse about it, too. They may be what gets us Trump again this time around, too.
Bring this same energy to the upper middle class middle age white voters who call themselves “moderates” but vote republicans. They are the ones who drag the democrat party to the right only for them to not vote Dem.
Nobody is significantly doing this, the DNC is just laying the groundwork of blame for if she loses.
“I have two feet, which one should I shoot?”
Good ol’ fptp
I wish I knew how to link YT videos, because I would link to the Cell v Gohan fight in the abridged series. Cell talks to Gohan about his pacifist mindset and letting people die, but he kept to his moral compass
I guarantee that if Harris loses, the Democratic Party will not shift to the left. It will do what it did in the 90s and shift to the right. Those marginal GOP voters who may be willing to vote Democrat are far more reliable and likely to help Dems win elections than Leftists who seem to think it’s all or nothing when it comes to supporting a politician.
It’s wild that people can post stuff like and think they’ve made some kind of gotcha but actually not realize they are just openly admitting we don’t have democracy in the US
Basically describing any of the tankie subs. Im not sure however if they’re actual basement communists or Russian agents. They basically have the same job though
Yup. I can’t condemn anyone for voting their conscience, but people should know the results of their actions. 3rd party candidates in US presidential elections function only as vote splitters, advantaging the candidate they are least like.
I want to vote for the woman who shows up like a cicada every four years. She does nothing to build her base or show that she’s a real candidate. She is the definition of a spoiler. I hope and pray people don’t fall for her moscow sponsored horseshit again this year.
If Trump gets in he will replace 2 more Supreme Court justices. It will be the end of any progress we have made in this country. It will be over. I don’t understand why people are so small minded. This election is bigger than ever. Please for my gay son’s rights, for my daughter’s rights, for our environment vote blue!
It’s adorable how much of a boogeyman 3rd Parties (and I guess Bernie by association) are to Democrats. It’s like Republicans being afraid of CRT.
“Progressive”
Why do you care so much?? The Harris campaign has decided unwavering support for Israel is their stance. They’re going to lose votes because of that, their goal is to pick up other voters.
Go scream to the moderates and Trump hating republicans, that’s who the Harris campaign is actively targeting, they’re the ones who didn’t come out in the states needed for Hillary.
I’m in a solid blue state, my presidential vote does not matter so I’m not voting for her. I would vote for her if I was in a battleground state. Don’t scream at me either. I understand the threat Trump is. I don’t want him. But this idea that you can shame all these people who were never going to vote for her is just cope. Go rally up the suburban wine moms and others.
Who would a progressive even vote for as third party? No one seems to have that position. Its just some libertarian and Stein. Are people still dumb enough to vote for them? (Retorical question)
>Inexperienced revolutionaries often think that legal methods of struggle are opportunist because, in this field, the bourgeoisie has most frequently deceived and duped the workers (particularly in “peaceful” and non-revolutionary times), while illegal methods of struggle are revolutionary. That, however, is wrong. The truth is that those parties and leaders are opportunists and traitors to the working class that are unable or unwilling (do not say, “I can’t”; say, “I shan’t”) to use illegal methods of struggle in conditions such as those which prevailed, for example, during the imperialist war of 1914–18, when the bourgeoisie of the freest democratic countries most brazenly and brutally deceived the workers, and smothered the truth about the predatory character of the war. But revolutionaries who are incapable of combining illegal forms of struggle with every form of legal struggle are poor revolutionaries indeed. It is not difficult to be a revolutionary when revolution has already broken out and is in spate, when all people are joining the revolution just because they are carried away, because it is the vogue, and sometimes even from careerist motives. After its victory, the proletariat has to make most strenuous efforts, even the most painful, so as to “liberate” itself from such pseudo-revolutionaries. ***It is far more difficult—and far more precious—to be a revolutionary when the conditions for direct, open, really mass and really revolutionary struggle do not yet exist, to be able to champion the interests of the revolution (by propaganda, agitation and organisation) in non-revolutionary bodies, and quite often in downright reactionary bodies, in a non-revolutionary situation, among the masses who are incapable of immediately appreciating the need for revolutionary methods of action.*** To be able to seek, find and correctly determine the specific path or the particular turn of events that will lead the masses to the real, decisive and final revolutionary struggle—such is the main objective of communism in Western Europe and in America today.
-[Lenin](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch10.htm)
Who, apparently, is a weak pseudo-leftist rightwing liberal.
Always reminded of a Hunter S Thompson quote when a post like this pops up.
“How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame but ‘regrettably necessary’ holding actions? And how many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?”
I fundamentally understand that with politics as they are, it’s true that we have no real choice but to vote against fascism…but what if the tens of millions of people who claim dissatisfaction with the current system all cast their votes in a different direction? The closest liberals got to an actual second option in recent years was Bernie, but even he understood that to get into the game he had to run as a Democrat instead of the Democratic Socialist Independent that he’s been for decades.
I work with a couple of people who vote 3rd party because “It’s my right to vote for who I want.” Yes, it is your right. But, a 3rd party candidate will NOT win the presidential election. And, given the choices we have in the presidential race, we either preserve our republic, or we get the Evil Galactic Empire. They just don’t get it. I’ve tried to get them to understand. The saddest part is, these two people hate Trump. They don’t want him to win.
Cutting off your nose to spite OUR faces.
IMO, there is a decent sized chunk of these types whose lives do not notably change based on who is in office. They come from a high enough income bracket where they can stand in their ideals but not suffer much consequence.
I also think another chunk are people who think the current state of things is so hopeless for them, but they need more people to suffer in order to hopefully see the light and join their cause. Letting the world burn until enough people realize they need to gather water.
Yeah how dare someone vote based on their beliefs and values instead of playing the political game where we all lose anyway
There’s this unfortunate line of thought that if things get bad enough, people will rise up, overthrow the capitalist system and usher in a new age for humanity. The trouble with the Accelerationist line of thought is that, historically, that’s not what happens. Not for years, often not for decades. Instead, the authoritarians gradually tighten their hold. The people willing to go along with it are much more prone to violence in general, because an authoritarian state gives them permission to perform that violence.
It does eventually get better but… how long does it take? Is it actually any faster at all? France went through decades of upheaval, war, civil wars… is that what we want for the US? It’s a terrifying prospect given the sheer weight of military force the US can bring to bear. If you think the US is expansionist and imperialist now, what would it become if it stopped competing with Russia and China and instead started carving colonies out of the African continent?
It’s just… I don’t think these people really think through the implications of what an Authoritarian United States would really be like… we do a lot of damage as it is. Why anyone would want to make it actively worse is beyond me.
This is bullshit guilt tripping. No one is entitled to your vote. There is no such thing as spoiler candidates. People play this goddamn fearmongering every 4 years and it’s why nothing changes in this country and why we’re stuck with self serving establishment politicians, because no one is brave enough to stand up for decent principles
As a Leftist, it pains me how much other Leftists let perfect be the enemy of good. So many genuinely believe lesser of two evils is just still evil, but that’s not how politics has ever worked.
Stop looking for a perfect fit and focus on the best choice of the two. That gives you the best chance to have left influence in power and allow progressive rhetoric to leap through
If you can find a third party candidate in the modern age who can poll close to a main party candidate, go nuts. You got a guy coming in at 33% with the other two? Spread your wings my dude
But voting for someone with a >1% chance to win is the same as not voting at all. You don’t have to compromise your morals to not vote the fat racist, vote blue, then on the ground level start campaigning for progressives. Like what most actual progressives do (source: me. Actual progressive)