What is the purpose and benefit of regulating names with the German naming law?

30 comments

1. The purpose is to protect children from crazy parents.

2. Obviously this case is pretty fringe and went wrong. They hopefully can resolve it, because this is not the use-case they had in mind.

   In general the rule is so you don’t have people with random city or fruit names, or otherwise strong connotations that might hinder the person’s future by making it the laughing stock everywhere. Just imagine a person being called “Zwickau”.

3. The idea is to allow the children to have a normal life, despite their parents being idiots. You do not want to be named Gucci Icecream Müller, just because someone found that name funny.

   As for American names getting a free card since you have no laws regarding names, that’s not how regulations work. If you have a child here, and want it to be a German citizen, then you’d have to follow the guidelines.

   Apart from that, the laws aren’t that strict. A distant accaintance of mine named her daughter Katara, after the character from the Avatar series. No issues there.

4. Mainly to prevent anything happening on r/tragedeigh.

   There used to also be a requirement to clearly identify the gender of the person, but I am not sure how it works now that transgender and non-binary people are recognized.

5. there are changing to the name law coming, that allow double surnames between other things.

   either way, Germany allowing the parents to use “other country” rules for names, is actually quite generous, not every country allows this.

   The issue was just that she wanna to do something not allow on the two countries.

6. Names have meanings. A well chosen name is probably the most important gift (or the worst curse) you can give your child.

   The general idea behind naming laws is to protect children from getting absurd names (X Æ A-12 for example) and to make it easier to handle naming data. After all the Germans like their norms.

   But with the ongoing globalization the rules and norms have been opened quite a bit. Most European names are fine now. The system still struggles with radically different naming schemes. Most of them Asian.

7. I believe the German naming laws only apply to Germans. If you’re an American citizen giving birth in German i believe you can name your child whatever you want.

8. Simple, because naming your child Apple, Rainbow Cloud, Sunday, Clover Garden, or Abcde is ridiculous and borders child abuse. It’s a human, not a dog, give them an actual name, it’s not that freaking hard.

   Sure this case is niche and should be resolved, but in general the law makes sense and should stay in place.

9. It’s probably to protect people from having to deal with crazy or weird names. Not sure what’s wrong with the last name you mentioned though. Google list with “namen die das Standesamt abgelehnt hat”. Think it’s best not to be named like in those examples 😂

10. I personally find American naming trends to be quite appalling. Misspelling (‘unique’) names, last names as first names, names like ‘X Æ A-12’ etc.

    I am quite glad we have the law.

11. Idk how it is now but when my grandparents immigrated to Germany from the former Soviet Union they had to change their names to German ones. For example, my uncle is actually called „Oleg“ but in his passport his name is „Oliver“.

12. If one of the parents of the child has a different citizenship, naming laws of that country can be used for the last name at least.
    But this case shouldn’t even be a problem usually. Yes in Germany you can’t usually have to last names, but the mother giving her last name to the child shouldn’t even be a problem.
    My fiancé has 2 last names, because that is normal in the country that he is from. Our daughter has his 2 last names and nobody made it a problem. We didn’t even have to go the route of saying we want to use his countries naming law. It was just accepted as a simple case of the child gets the father’s last name

13. To avoid this; https://www.instagram.com/p/DAoDd4sxfZE/?img_index=1

14. so nobody would name their kid adolf /s

15. As far as I understood this case has nothing to do with the name of the child. They questioned the double last name of the mother and punished the whole family by denying identity to the child and monetary aid to the family.

    The Standesamt is pretty infamous for overreaching like this. The victims are mostly migrants so the issues go unnoticed by the larger public. Great to see this issue come to light. Notice also how quickly the birth certificate was issued after the issue went public.

16. Reading this thread, I’m shocked at how many Germans are justifying it 😂 it looks like everyone is afraid of a potential weird name given to a child, something like how in the US they’re afraid of kids learning about trans in school.

    I would say this is just another extremely bureaucratic rule of Germany that people have been conditioned to accept and defend, like closed shops Sunday, paperwork instead of digitalization, no air conditioning, etc.

17. This particular case is an edge case where naturalization laws and naming laws don’t work together. The naming laws for a child and the parents name on the birth certificate born to parents with a foreign nationality, even if it is just one of many, may not be against the naming laws in that country. Which makes sense, if they want to return to Vietnam the Vietnamese authorities would have to work with that document, so it must adhere to their laws. While for naturalization you can adjust your own name on the German passport to whatevery is fine with German naming laws, which include double names you gained by marriage. So both make sense here, to a degree, but they lead to opposing results. Her name is valid on the passport but not on the birth certificate.

18. It is to prevent you from naming your child Trashcan Jones.

19. The conflation here of a double barreled last name with first names that are just numbers is bizarre.

    German Beamten deal with double barreled last names pretty frequently nowadays. Probably not every day but often enough. The woman in this article is being discriminated against because she is Asian and to be “acceptable” she needs to reduce how different she is as much as possible. She challenges their understanding of Germanness, so they’re using state violence to try to force her conform better to their idea of what “German” should be because it stabilizes their own identities. This is about the biopolitics of the “nation”.

    It isn’t really the same logic behind “you can’t name your kid’ Shithead’.” and the fact that they frame it that way is frankly also informative.

20. FYI Unlike the US you don’t get citizenship here for being born on German soil. 

21. I’xe once read a book from some social worker working in Berlin, she had one case, where she needed to find some home for a girl, because her mother was, let’s say, not the brightest candle on the cake. The girls name never should have accepted by the “Standesbeamte”, who registered her.

    Schackeline.

    Invented from someone, who has heard the French name “Jacqueline”and mispronounced it. Her aunt, who zook the girl, called her “Lina”. Which is a name, contrary to her given one.

    Imagine a kid bearing the same na— combination or letters and signs, as that poor kid from Melon Tusk.

22. Just to be clear, since it seems that nobody has specified this yet, foreign first and last names can generally be used. There is no requirement for the name to be German. Someone can give their child a name that is English, French, Arabic, or Hebrew, for example. It is just supposed to be recognizable as a name and not be something that will cause the child to suffer.

    The benefit is obvious, in that it stops parents from choosing absolutely ridiculous names for their kids. IMO, it is a problem that parents in America can give their kids names like [Marijuana Pepsi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana_Pepsi_Vandyck), for example. Realistically, nothing can be done about this in the US, but I don’t think that countries who have reasonable restrictions should drop these. (I do, however, think it is a problem when parents can’t give ethnic names, but that isn’t generally the case in Germany.)

    The main thing that I think should change about German laws, however, is that one should always have the right to change one’s name as an adult, and it is ridiculous that one cannot.

23. The case you are referring to has nothing at all to do with German regulation of names. The Berlin civil registry office (“Standesamt”) was doubting that the name this woman goes by in daily life is actually her legal birth name as recorded in the competent Vietnamese civil registry office.

    Their (somewhat relatable) point is that birth records should unmistakably identify the parents, and match their names as listed in their own birth and/or marriage records. They have information about foreign naming laws, in order to help figure out how to interpret someone’s full name (e.g. split it into given name, patronymic, family name, etc., or not split it). For Vietnam, their information apparently says that a two-word family name is not possible. This is either inaccurate, or the affected woman is an exception. Still, I don’t believe the newspaper article is telling the whole story. After all, she could have irrefutably proved her name by providing her Vietnamese birth certificate. Granted, she would need to obtain it from the competent Vietnamese authority, and get it apostilled and possibly translated, so it would take some time, money, and effort. But that would have been the straightforward solution.

24. To prevent further r/tragedeigh

25. Germany isn’t the only country with naming regulations. And the regulations here have been relaxed over the years as Germany has become very multicultural.

    I think part of it is to preserve basic human dignity. While I think it can go too far and generally don’t like this regulation, there have definitely been sick Americans who named their kids something that will only bring them shame and pain throughout their life, which doesn’t recognize their basic human dignity and in those (very few) cases I believe it is the government’s job to protect that child.

26. They don’t want to long surnames. It was possible to choose compound names for children until 2002. The regulation wants to limit the surnames to 1 word, so everyone can create a 2-word-compound-name after marriage, if they want to. But not more. You are able to use the compound-name after divorce, but you are not allowed to create another compound-name at your next wedding. So Mueller-Schmidt and Schuster-Hoffmann can marry, but not use the surname Mueller-Schmidt-Schuster-Hoffmann.

    And the child should start without a compound name to be able to choose later for or against a compound name.

    So it is to protect young ones against too long names.

27. They changed the law couple of years back, so that the child can only get the last name of one of the parents, not a double name with both of them. The reason cited for the change at the time was, that this meant that the child in the next generation could theoretically have four last names. I’m not quite sure how it is with foreign last names, but if the parents married somewhere where it is possible to have a “last name merger” upon marriage, german authorities usually are legally obliged to accept that.

28. The undoubted benefit is that you’ll never become a post in r/tragedeigh

29. I’m originally from India but currently living in Germany. From my perspective, the main difference between countries like India or the US (as you described) and Germany is how the role of the state is viewed in relation to raising children. In places like the US or India, the child is largely seen as the responsibility of the parents. It’s generally assumed that parents act in the best interest of their children, and the state only intervenes when absolutely necessary.

    In Germany, however, the state takes a more active role in the welfare of children, which is reflected in laws such as naming regulations. These rules are in place to protect children from potentially harmful decisions made by parents. Similar laws exist in other areas – for example, homeschooling is not allowed here.

    There are pros and cons to both approaches, of course, and it’s a matter of perspective. Many Germans support these laws, as you can see from some of the replies in this thread.

    Personally, I tend to value freedom and individual choice over what can sometimes feel like an overprotective nanny state. However, I recognize that living in Germany means respecting the values and preferences of the majority.

30. Everyone is saying the point is to prevent silly first names to protect children. However, this case has nothing to do with that.

    This article is about the law on *surnames*, which are treated very differently to first names. In Germany, the law on surnames is extremely restrictive. Generally, you can only give a child the birth or current surname of one of the parents, and it cannot be double barrelled.

    Dual nationals can name their child according to the law of their country, but only if their systems are determined to be compatible with German law. The law of Anglo countries (US/Canada, UK/Ireland, Aus/NZ) which allows novel surnames to be created, and of India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka, which does distinguish between surname and first names, is not allowed. In this case, a dual national mother’s surname is the problem based on the interpretation of Vietnamese naming law by German authorities.

    Your question is why. The reasoning is that this allows the civil registration to be accurate. You can identify who married whom, who gave birth to whom, which becomes much more difficult when surnames change.

    Ultimately, it’s Napoleon’s fault. The German system of civil law is one of the European systems inspired by the Napoleonic code. In these countries, the law defines precisely what you are and not allowed to do. By contrast, in Anglo countries “Everything which is not forbidden is allowed”.

    The UK is the most extreme opposite of Germany. In the UK, you can give a child any surname you want, and adults can change their names to anything at any time by signing a declaration on their kitchen table witnessed by two friends (this is called an “unenrolled deep poll”). There is no involvement of courts or the civil register and no official record. I have met people who did this just for fun.

    As you can imagine, the downside is that it is messy. There is no compulsory photo ID or national database of citizens either. Official procedure relies on people voluntarily declaring former names, and their birth certificate is the only record of the original name. For criminal records, for example, your ID can be checked using a birth certificate, a bank statement and gas bill, with no photo ID. Surprisingly, it works well enough, with occasional hiccups – when the government made photo ID a requirement for voting, they had to introduce a new form of free photo ID, because many people don’t have any.