>In Washington and some western capitals, meanwhile — and in the corridors of Kyiv — the mood is shifting: from a determination that the war can end only with Russia’s army driven from Ukraine, to the reluctant recognition that a negotiated settlement that leaves the bulk of the country intact may be the best hope. Yet Kyiv is not being given the support it needs even to achieve that scaled-back goal.
Redefining on a Ukrainian “win”:
1) Keep what Ukraine has. Bye, Crimea, parts of the Donbas, the ‘land bridge’ areas, and the Sea of Azov. No official recognition of giving these up but an armistice takes effect where there is de facto post-war Russian occupation of those territories.
2) No constraints on what a post-war Ukrainian military will be.
3) Ukraine can apply to join NATO and the EU if they want.
Im just waiting to see the first redditor to call the financial times a russian backed propaganda piece, the way things have been going on this website.
People here will have to come to terms with the fact that they have been lied to about the state of the war in ukraine since at least Bakhmut. It was never as good as it has been reported, and everything that has been swept under the rug has continuously added up, and now it has mutated and is emerging.
Exactly the same thing that enabled the Nazis a headstart in WWII strikes again: inability of liberal democracy to answer military challenges poised by authoritarian regimes.
That’s a surprising read. There are multiple indicators pointing to Russia running out of resources before or during 2025.
If West continues to support Kyiv the war will be over before the end of next year.
I think these opinion pieces should wait until after the US election to say these things
It’s quite obvious that no risks are being taken due to that atm
Maybe the real war aims were the friends we ~~made~~ lost along the way?
Wish the allies stopped being so fatalist about Ukraine and just sent the supplies.
Israel happened……….attention shifted
This kind of news keep showing since day 1
The rumor about 4 regions most likely true, the sad part is that it will be repeat of Georgia situation and now they apologized to Russia for defending themselves in 2008
The political cohesion of Europe will NEVER be united. The enemy just needs a decent propaganda machine and can turn whole Europe into fighting between themselves, then swoop in with gaslighting and take over. And the same can be said for USA and their willingness to support others.
It just makes me angry and sad at the whole situation.
shortsighted fools, their poor strategy will only cause even larger war when rashist horde rebuilds its capabilities. then we westerners will pay by blood .
So the best hope is that putin dies and hopefully russia will do what it does best… Unrest and uprising. And if they split in smaller entities being occupied to fight each other, that should keep them busy for couple of decades.
“to the reluctant recognition that a negotiated settlement that leaves the bulk of the country intact may be the best hope. Yet Kyiv is not being given the support it needs even to achieve that scaled-back goal.”
There it is, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Next up the Baltics and Moldova/RO once the rest of the “intact” Ukraine is subdued.
It will probably be coordinated to time with CN solving the Taiwan issue.
The lesson for every else on the planet: nuclear blackmail works, and it works very well on the US. Get nukes and you can pretty much do whatever you want.
This is some bullshit russian propaganda. Why would FT publish this crap?
I can’t imagine what will happen if the US withdraws from supporting Ukraine. The EUs gonna get occupied one by one coz the whole EU and NATO sounds like a paper tiger which is slowly collapsing from the inside. At least to me rn. I really hope I am completely wrong on this.
>Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, presented a “victory plan” in Washington last month that sought to persuade Kyiv’s allies to bolster his position, militarily and diplomatically, and force Moscow to the table. He left empty-handed on two key requests: progress towards Nato, and US permission for Kyiv to use western missiles for long-range strikes on Russian territory.
The practice of lip service by the US and current NATO members on allowing Ukraine to join is just that, lip service. Allowing Ukraine to believe it’s a possibility will further damage the best case scenario for a peace deal that would work for both involved.
Furthermore, the US and the heavy hitters in NATO, the EU, must be permanently concerned, quite rightly, on the idea that Russia is faced with a real threat to national sovereignty that the current non-Democratic rule will press the red button. The idea that people have in their head, that a massive nuclear nation can just be deposed without a dramatic causation is naive at best.
What the article fails to elaborate, is that this isn’t a Ukraine problem, it’s a US problem, it’s a major state European problem. When the Middle Eastern conflict proliferated as it did, as it has, Ukraine was no longer the focus. It will never be the focus as long as Israel remains unabashed in its resolve to war with every other country in the region. Quite frankly, Ukraine is old news and quicker that the Ukrainian’s understand that the better so they can get a deal that isn’t game over for them as a nation, rebuild and build nukes, nukes that were robbed from them, by the people that supposedly have their ‘best’ interests.
Russia, North Korea, Iran and China winning against Ukraine and the west would cost mor than just parts of ukraine. It strengthens this unholy alliance and is a precedent for wars to come.
This was already the case with crimea, they dont care on agreements. Their game book doesnt follow your gentleman rules. Just start again when weapons built up again then next is Poland and other nations. See the history and previous engagements. When Ukraine is part of Russia then all their tech and capabilities is obtained. That is the game plan. MRGA same as MAGA
Is this article from 2022?
What about abducted 30-40k children? Are they got to go home or not ?
22 comments
Key paragraph:
>In Washington and some western capitals, meanwhile — and in the corridors of Kyiv — the mood is shifting: from a determination that the war can end only with Russia’s army driven from Ukraine, to the reluctant recognition that a negotiated settlement that leaves the bulk of the country intact may be the best hope. Yet Kyiv is not being given the support it needs even to achieve that scaled-back goal.
Redefining on a Ukrainian “win”:
1) Keep what Ukraine has. Bye, Crimea, parts of the Donbas, the ‘land bridge’ areas, and the Sea of Azov. No official recognition of giving these up but an armistice takes effect where there is de facto post-war Russian occupation of those territories.
2) No constraints on what a post-war Ukrainian military will be.
3) Ukraine can apply to join NATO and the EU if they want.
Im just waiting to see the first redditor to call the financial times a russian backed propaganda piece, the way things have been going on this website.
People here will have to come to terms with the fact that they have been lied to about the state of the war in ukraine since at least Bakhmut. It was never as good as it has been reported, and everything that has been swept under the rug has continuously added up, and now it has mutated and is emerging.
Exactly the same thing that enabled the Nazis a headstart in WWII strikes again: inability of liberal democracy to answer military challenges poised by authoritarian regimes.
That’s a surprising read. There are multiple indicators pointing to Russia running out of resources before or during 2025.
If West continues to support Kyiv the war will be over before the end of next year.
I think these opinion pieces should wait until after the US election to say these things
It’s quite obvious that no risks are being taken due to that atm
Maybe the real war aims were the friends we ~~made~~ lost along the way?
Wish the allies stopped being so fatalist about Ukraine and just sent the supplies.
Israel happened……….attention shifted
This kind of news keep showing since day 1
The rumor about 4 regions most likely true, the sad part is that it will be repeat of Georgia situation and now they apologized to Russia for defending themselves in 2008
The political cohesion of Europe will NEVER be united. The enemy just needs a decent propaganda machine and can turn whole Europe into fighting between themselves, then swoop in with gaslighting and take over. And the same can be said for USA and their willingness to support others.
It just makes me angry and sad at the whole situation.
shortsighted fools, their poor strategy will only cause even larger war when rashist horde rebuilds its capabilities. then we westerners will pay by blood .
So the best hope is that putin dies and hopefully russia will do what it does best… Unrest and uprising. And if they split in smaller entities being occupied to fight each other, that should keep them busy for couple of decades.
“to the reluctant recognition that a negotiated settlement that leaves the bulk of the country intact may be the best hope. Yet Kyiv is not being given the support it needs even to achieve that scaled-back goal.”
There it is, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Next up the Baltics and Moldova/RO once the rest of the “intact” Ukraine is subdued.
It will probably be coordinated to time with CN solving the Taiwan issue.
The lesson for every else on the planet: nuclear blackmail works, and it works very well on the US. Get nukes and you can pretty much do whatever you want.
This is some bullshit russian propaganda. Why would FT publish this crap?
I can’t imagine what will happen if the US withdraws from supporting Ukraine. The EUs gonna get occupied one by one coz the whole EU and NATO sounds like a paper tiger which is slowly collapsing from the inside. At least to me rn. I really hope I am completely wrong on this.
>Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, presented a “victory plan” in Washington last month that sought to persuade Kyiv’s allies to bolster his position, militarily and diplomatically, and force Moscow to the table. He left empty-handed on two key requests: progress towards Nato, and US permission for Kyiv to use western missiles for long-range strikes on Russian territory.
The practice of lip service by the US and current NATO members on allowing Ukraine to join is just that, lip service. Allowing Ukraine to believe it’s a possibility will further damage the best case scenario for a peace deal that would work for both involved.
Furthermore, the US and the heavy hitters in NATO, the EU, must be permanently concerned, quite rightly, on the idea that Russia is faced with a real threat to national sovereignty that the current non-Democratic rule will press the red button. The idea that people have in their head, that a massive nuclear nation can just be deposed without a dramatic causation is naive at best.
What the article fails to elaborate, is that this isn’t a Ukraine problem, it’s a US problem, it’s a major state European problem. When the Middle Eastern conflict proliferated as it did, as it has, Ukraine was no longer the focus. It will never be the focus as long as Israel remains unabashed in its resolve to war with every other country in the region. Quite frankly, Ukraine is old news and quicker that the Ukrainian’s understand that the better so they can get a deal that isn’t game over for them as a nation, rebuild and build nukes, nukes that were robbed from them, by the people that supposedly have their ‘best’ interests.
Russia, North Korea, Iran and China winning against Ukraine and the west would cost mor than just parts of ukraine.
It strengthens this unholy alliance and is a precedent for wars to come.
This was already the case with crimea, they dont care on agreements. Their game book doesnt follow your gentleman rules. Just start again when weapons built up again then next is Poland and other nations. See the history and previous engagements. When Ukraine is part of Russia then all their tech and capabilities is obtained. That is the game plan. MRGA same as MAGA
Is this article from 2022?
What about abducted 30-40k children? Are they got to go home or not ?
New Dolchstoßlegende just dropped