What? Just because the West screwed you in the past with nuclear weapons security guarantees doesn’t mean they’ll do it again. Does it?
I’ll just leave it here:
> Instituted in the hope of avoiding war, **appeasement** was the name given to Britain’s policy in the 1930s of allowing Hitler to expand German territory unchecked. Most closely associated with British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, it is now widely discredited as a policy of weakness.
What’s the other option?
It doesn’t seem like Ukraine isn’t really capable of retaking all their land
“Western guarantees” don’t worth the paper they are written on
“Western Guarantees.” Ukraine has been there, done that. Was no guarantee. Especially the way Biden cripples weapons.
Not should he, it would set a terrible precedent. 🇺🇦
Zelenskyy seems committed to fighting this out to the last Ukrainian. It is a terrible shame for the Ukrainian people. They cannot win an attritional war, and he knows it. Whatever deal they will have to agree upon—and they will have to—it is going to be progressively worse the more he drags this out and loses what little negotiating power Ukraine has left.
Welp, I was wrong again…
Of course not, no one is asking Ukraine to, where the fuck is this even coming from?
Oh wait,
>I saw something like this in the media. Russia works a lot with the media, so it’s clear what’s going on here,” [Zelensky] said.
Well that explains it then.
How about a new headline?
**Zelenskyy says Ukraine won’t consider Russian bullshit that no one is even suggesting**
Until the last Ukrainian it is
What Western guarantees? No western country is able to guarantee shit unless it’s a NATO membership.
He needs more than a guarantee. Like a 100k troops. And enough to operate Kherson and Micoliave as ports. Honestly, still not sure if that is enough.
Russia cannot be trusted. And if you look at the Budapest memorandum the US promises are not really enough. And US politics makes it the position un clear.
Ukraine should not have to yield 1 inch of their land to Russia. Nato needs to stop being pussies and stand up to them once and for all
Isn’t Ukraine already a member of the West? If so, where are the West’s weapons in Ukraine and the guarantees that Ukraine can use them to eliminate Russia?
Didn’t the West guarantee Ukraine something for surrendering their nukes?
Well first off this is very understandable , considering Ukraine was given guarantees in the 1990’s under the Minsk, Lisbon, Massandra, and Trilateral agreements. ( [https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ukraine-nuclear-weapons-and-security-assurances-glance](https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ukraine-nuclear-weapons-and-security-assurances-glance) ) These agreements guaranteed territorial integrity by the USA, Russia, Britain and France; in exchange for giving up their sizable nuclear arsenal from the USSR days. We see the result of that agreement and to be fair, it was almost 30 years old….. most agreements have a term of expiration but still…..
Unfortunately, it seems that the USA and Europe will eventually twist the arm of Ukraine into making a deal as discussed above. This is Realpolitik, Russia isnt an actual threat to to the EU militarily and is being thrown into the arms of China in a way that could probably end up being a much larger threat than either alone would be. The sooner the war is over the sooner this Russo-Sino alliance will start to decay as Russia is very much at a disadvantage in it. This is at least the thinking in the halls of power and influence. At best Russia will save face and keep Crimea, the rest of their gains are Pyrrhic at best. Ukraine will be given a path to the EU but not NATO and get more useless assurances. Very low interest loans will also be given for the rebuilding of their country.
I expect Belarus will be joined into Russia proper as autonomous republic after this within 5 years.
They gave up their nukes for a promis of territorial integrity from the west and look what happend.
And they shouldn’t. Russia should retreat, pay for repairs, and knee stomp Putin’s tiny head. Moscow as we have known it shouldn’t exist.
Well, when a putin-friendly trump is running for office, who could blame him?
Western guarrantees mean nothing. Russia Federation must be bankrupt and dissolved for lasting peace.
I don’t blame them
Why would he? The West totally fucked them over in 2014. Giving their nukes back to Russia came with protection guarantees from the west. Where was the west when Putin rolled into Crimea? We should have stood up to Putin back then!
Zelensky isn’t going to concede anything until polls close in the US election. But afterwards he really needs to lay out a plan how he hopes to win the war without direct Western intervention. Currently I can’t make any out.
Good! Why the fuck should he? Would America give up Alaska to appease Putin?
Gave up Nukes on “guarantees” – fool me once,…
I’m not even convinced an article 5 activation would count for much these days, depending on whatever way the political winds are blowing half of NATO probably wouldn’t even show up anyway.
Non-NATO Western “guarantees” would be complete fairy dust.
26 comments
What? Just because the West screwed you in the past with nuclear weapons security guarantees doesn’t mean they’ll do it again. Does it?
I’ll just leave it here:
> Instituted in the hope of avoiding war, **appeasement** was the name given to Britain’s policy in the 1930s of allowing Hitler to expand German territory unchecked. Most closely associated with British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, it is now widely discredited as a policy of weakness.
What’s the other option?
It doesn’t seem like Ukraine isn’t really capable of retaking all their land
“Western guarantees” don’t worth the paper they are written on
“Western Guarantees.” Ukraine has been there, done that. Was no guarantee. Especially the way Biden cripples weapons.
Not should he, it would set a terrible precedent. 🇺🇦
Zelenskyy seems committed to fighting this out to the last Ukrainian. It is a terrible shame for the Ukrainian people. They cannot win an attritional war, and he knows it. Whatever deal they will have to agree upon—and they will have to—it is going to be progressively worse the more he drags this out and loses what little negotiating power Ukraine has left.
Welp, I was wrong again…
Of course not, no one is asking Ukraine to, where the fuck is this even coming from?
Oh wait,
>I saw something like this in the media. Russia works a lot with the media, so it’s clear what’s going on here,” [Zelensky] said.
Well that explains it then.
How about a new headline?
**Zelenskyy says Ukraine won’t consider Russian bullshit that no one is even suggesting**
Until the last Ukrainian it is
What Western guarantees? No western country is able to guarantee shit unless it’s a NATO membership.
He needs more than a guarantee. Like a 100k troops. And enough to operate Kherson and Micoliave as ports. Honestly, still not sure if that is enough.
Russia cannot be trusted. And if you look at the Budapest memorandum the US promises are not really enough. And US politics makes it the position un clear.
Ukraine should not have to yield 1 inch of their land to Russia. Nato needs to stop being pussies and stand up to them once and for all
Isn’t Ukraine already a member of the West? If so, where are the West’s weapons in Ukraine and the guarantees that Ukraine can use them to eliminate Russia?
Didn’t the West guarantee Ukraine something for surrendering their nukes?
Well first off this is very understandable , considering Ukraine was given guarantees in the 1990’s under the Minsk, Lisbon, Massandra, and Trilateral agreements. ( [https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ukraine-nuclear-weapons-and-security-assurances-glance](https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ukraine-nuclear-weapons-and-security-assurances-glance) ) These agreements guaranteed territorial integrity by the USA, Russia, Britain and France; in exchange for giving up their sizable nuclear arsenal from the USSR days. We see the result of that agreement and to be fair, it was almost 30 years old….. most agreements have a term of expiration but still…..
Unfortunately, it seems that the USA and Europe will eventually twist the arm of Ukraine into making a deal as discussed above. This is Realpolitik, Russia isnt an actual threat to to the EU militarily and is being thrown into the arms of China in a way that could probably end up being a much larger threat than either alone would be. The sooner the war is over the sooner this Russo-Sino alliance will start to decay as Russia is very much at a disadvantage in it. This is at least the thinking in the halls of power and influence. At best Russia will save face and keep Crimea, the rest of their gains are Pyrrhic at best. Ukraine will be given a path to the EU but not NATO and get more useless assurances. Very low interest loans will also be given for the rebuilding of their country.
I expect Belarus will be joined into Russia proper as autonomous republic after this within 5 years.
They gave up their nukes for a promis of territorial integrity from the west and look what happend.
And they shouldn’t. Russia should retreat, pay for repairs, and knee stomp Putin’s tiny head. Moscow as we have known it shouldn’t exist.
Well, when a putin-friendly trump is running for office, who could blame him?
Western guarrantees mean nothing. Russia Federation must be bankrupt and dissolved for lasting peace.
I don’t blame them
Why would he? The West totally fucked them over in 2014. Giving their nukes back to Russia came with protection guarantees from the west. Where was the west when Putin rolled into Crimea? We should have stood up to Putin back then!
Zelensky isn’t going to concede anything until polls close in the US election. But afterwards he really needs to lay out a plan how he hopes to win the war without direct Western intervention. Currently I can’t make any out.
Good! Why the fuck should he? Would America give up Alaska to appease Putin?
Gave up Nukes on “guarantees” – fool me once,…
I’m not even convinced an article 5 activation would count for much these days, depending on whatever way the political winds are blowing half of NATO probably wouldn’t even show up anyway.
Non-NATO Western “guarantees” would be complete fairy dust.