ROME — Italy on Wednesday passed the West’s most restrictive law against international surrogacy, threatening would-be parents who use birth mothers abroad with jail time and severe fines in a move that critics say will chiefly target same-sex couples.
Domestic surrogacy was already banned in Italy, as it is in some other countries and U.S. states, but the amended Italian law goes further, classifying surrogacy as a rare universal crime that transcends borders, like terrorism or genocide.
The measure marks the strongest salvo yet in far-right Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni’s bid to put a conservative stamp on Italian society, and it elevates surrogacy as a hot-button issue in the West’s raging culture wars.
The law, passed last year by the lower house and effectively ensured by the Senate vote on Wednesday, also criminalizes work by Italian citizens employed as doctors, nurses and technicians in foreign fertility clinics that facilitate surrogacies.
And thus, nothing was solved, time and money are wasted, ~~and children are harmed~~.
A conservative classic.
Why is the world going backwards
sigh the Catholic Church has so much influence there 🙁
edit: for people downvoting me, I’m not saying the church did this. But it’s undeniable its influence in spreading bigotry against LGTBQ communities and influencing this kind of policy. I’ve lived in Italy so I’m familiar.
Is it still the 90s again over there?
What are the actual laws?
after reading this I can understand why they would ban it because it leaves room for abuse and neglect however the real reason was probably political and not ethical
Surrogacy for money is forbidden in Sweden too. Also, the parental right of the surrogate mother (if volunteering) is so strong they can change their mind after birth.
In combination, those who look at this solution either pair up with lesbian women or go abroad for surrogacy.
Never sure how it’s not universally seen as completely effed up and unethical to pay a woman to get pregnant and birth a child for you like a breeding device to rent.
They tried this a while back when Mussolini’s granddaughter first was elected.
Surrogacy is a dangerous and often predatory practice that is totally unnecessary. It should be banned globally.
There are enough adoptable children around for every infertile parent. Risking the health and safety of the surrogate so you can have your pristine newborn while millions of kids need homes is sociopathic.
The homophobia at the heart of this is unfortunate but I’m glad anytime I hear surrogacy is being banned.
that’s Good! Surrogacy is abomination, Pocreation itself is already bad enough. There are many orphans out there take care of them first.
Using women from 3rd world countries as your breeding cattle is bad, actually.
No they just have to adopt
Is adoption a thing there?
A reminder that far right conservatism (fascism) is not just an issue in the US right now.
Take the LGBTQ politicization out of this argument and it becomes a human rights issue. But when the Italian gov (and republicans in the USA) makes it an LGBTQ issue, that is a human rights issue as well. This should not be about sex, it is about the potential for human right violations. It isn’t just gay people who use a surrogate. Correlation does not equal causation. Peace love and respect to all!
Edit: Humans should Use the power of law and human rights to accomplish justice. The LGBTQ community are humans, LGBTQ humans shouldn’t stand only behind their sexuality or a labeling of subcultures to gain their human rights and freedoms. Their power lies within their ability to work the law for justice. Humanity is all we have when those without it attempt to reduce our humanity.
Maybe, just maybe, women’s bodies shouldn’t be purchased as a commodity for breeding purposes. Good for Italy!
From Italy, the news didn’t talk about it at all…
[removed]
Wait the article says surrogacy is banned in the US too. But this can’t be true?
I have family members that were unable to conceive themselves and just had their surrogate daughter a few months ago. I’ve seen advertising for the agency/company they used throughout SF.
Is this specifically just a ban on specific types of surrogacy?
It makes sense to ban commercial surrogacy because of how quickly it can become exploitative. In most countries, this is already the case. However, banning voluntary/altruistic surrogacy doesn’t make much sense. These are much desired children that are well looked after.
Same-sex couples are not allowed *any* form of adoption in Italy. Basically, you’re not allowed to start a family as a same-sex couple. Probably will be difficult if you’re an infertile heterosexual couple as well, given that the article already mentions that most couples (90%) using a surrogate are heterosexual. This makes me think that Italy has the same problem as other western European countries, where there are way more adoptive parents (heterosexuals alone) on the waiting list than there are adoptable children. Often, adopting from abroad is limit as well because of similar exploitation concerns.
So, we have problems with declining birth rates, and then they block even altruistic surrogacy?! I really don’t get the problem with e.g. a gay couple and a lesbian couple teaming up to have children. Pure homophobia. But what can I say, the pope asked for a blanket ban on surrogacy world wide. Commercial surrogacy, fine. But voluntary surrogacy?? It’s like people don’t even realise it is a thing as well.
EDIT: Of course two heterosexual couples with one infertile partner each can also help each other, which is also blocked now.
Well this is totally fucked up.
Seems dumb to me
They also said that it’s a “universal crime” that means it will be possible to prosecute Italian citizens who use it even in countries where the practice is legal
Why and how is it bad?
Surrogacy is disgusting. Nobody should be doing it.
Being concerned about the impact of surrogates and most especially donor conceived children doesn’t make you anti gay. Look at some of the Reddit groups for conceived children. Most have very complex feelings and anger about being donor conceived and being created from the outset with the intent of denying them a connection to their biology. The first concern should be the children and it’s been shown it can be traumatic to be donor conceived.
The world over, some people want to unfairly dictate or constrain the rights of others. They must be called out and stopped. It’s 2024. We’ve come a long way but we’re just beginning to open our eyes.
I think the best solution is what the UK does. Where surrogacy is legal on voluntary you are not allowed to profit from it. You are only allowed to cover expenses associated with pregnancy and that includes loss of earnings. Also you have to cover heath and life insurance in case of complications.
Should the desire to become a parent trump the prevention of exploitation, cruelty or trafficking?
Right wing always telling people what they can’t do with their bodies
It just doesn’t make sense to me. Surrogacy has zero impact on anyone but the couple who wants a child (ie making them happy). Why would you ever be against this? I guess I can see why someone might be against commercial surrogacy, but to ban it outright…. That’s just nonsense.
You vote far right, you get far right.
Very surprising for a country that was such an early adopter of the gay. What would the Romans think?
Not surprising. Italy is so Catholic it hurts.
This might make some of you mad, but surrogacy is a form of sexual slavery. If someone wouldn’t do it for free, it’s no different than paying them for sex (illegal). Gay men do not have the right to buy and use women’s bodies as tools. They’re men, just like straight men. Women are not incubators, and no one would willingly give away their baby to a random couple for nothing in return.
As it should be
I (44F) tried being a surrogate at 20. I didn’t have kids yet. I had read about pregnancy at a younger age could lower certain cancer risks. No idea now if it was true. I couldn’t get pregnant so I thought I was sterile. Figured out later that the arm implant birth control I had sometimes affects you for years after it is out. Short story long, the couple were very nice. I really wanted to help them. I had no intentions of raising a child until after graduate school. I don’t remember what the compensation was. But I think mostly it was pregnancy clothes, healthy food, etc. then something nominal like $5k. I hope they kept trying. They would have been great parents.
Children are people, not products to be created and sold by an industry.
Catholics
The fascists: always focused on controlling vaginas.
Good, surrogacy is immoral.
You mean other than the usual Indian way of an arranged marriage?
This to go to the EU courts, this looks like a violation on one of the same laws in EU, the same that got Hungary ñ’s LGBT free zone got them suspended of many Euro programs and monetary help
Gay couples should not raise kids, they already made the decision not to reproduce by being gay. How would these kids grow up to be emotionally stable, as they would most likely be sexually abused? Would you want your 16 year old daughter moving in with a couple gay guys? Kids naturally need a mother and father figure. Look at the crime and drug rates of kids in a single parent family. Give the kids a fair chance.
46 comments
ROME — Italy on Wednesday passed the West’s most restrictive law against international surrogacy, threatening would-be parents who use birth mothers abroad with jail time and severe fines in a move that critics say will chiefly target same-sex couples.
Domestic surrogacy was already banned in Italy, as it is in some other countries and U.S. states, but the amended Italian law goes further, classifying surrogacy as a rare universal crime that transcends borders, like terrorism or genocide.
The measure marks the strongest salvo yet in far-right Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni’s bid to put a conservative stamp on Italian society, and it elevates surrogacy as a hot-button issue in the West’s raging culture wars.
The law, passed last year by the lower house and effectively ensured by the Senate vote on Wednesday, also criminalizes work by Italian citizens employed as doctors, nurses and technicians in foreign fertility clinics that facilitate surrogacies.
Read more here: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/16/italy-surrogacy-ban-gay-parents/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/16/italy-surrogacy-ban-gay-parents/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com)
And thus, nothing was solved, time and money are wasted, ~~and children are harmed~~.
A conservative classic.
Why is the world going backwards
sigh the Catholic Church has so much influence there 🙁
edit: for people downvoting me, I’m not saying the church did this. But it’s undeniable its influence in spreading bigotry against LGTBQ communities and influencing this kind of policy. I’ve lived in Italy so I’m familiar.
Is it still the 90s again over there?
What are the actual laws?
after reading this I can understand why they would ban it because it leaves room for abuse and neglect however the real reason was probably political and not ethical
Surrogacy for money is forbidden in Sweden too. Also, the parental right of the surrogate mother (if volunteering) is so strong they can change their mind after birth.
In combination, those who look at this solution either pair up with lesbian women or go abroad for surrogacy.
Never sure how it’s not universally seen as completely effed up and unethical to pay a woman to get pregnant and birth a child for you like a breeding device to rent.
They tried this a while back when Mussolini’s granddaughter first was elected.
Surrogacy is a dangerous and often predatory practice that is totally unnecessary. It should be banned globally.
There are enough adoptable children around for every infertile parent. Risking the health and safety of the surrogate so you can have your pristine newborn while millions of kids need homes is sociopathic.
The homophobia at the heart of this is unfortunate but I’m glad anytime I hear surrogacy is being banned.
that’s Good! Surrogacy is abomination, Pocreation itself is already bad enough. There are many orphans out there take care of them first.
Using women from 3rd world countries as your breeding cattle is bad, actually.
No they just have to adopt
Is adoption a thing there?
A reminder that far right conservatism (fascism) is not just an issue in the US right now.
Take the LGBTQ politicization out of this argument and it becomes a human rights issue. But when the Italian gov (and republicans in the USA) makes it an LGBTQ issue, that is a human rights issue as well. This should not be about sex, it is about the potential for human right violations. It isn’t just gay people who use a surrogate. Correlation does not equal causation. Peace love and respect to all!
Edit: Humans should Use the power of law and human rights to accomplish justice. The LGBTQ community are humans, LGBTQ humans shouldn’t stand only behind their sexuality or a labeling of subcultures to gain their human rights and freedoms. Their power lies within their ability to work the law for justice. Humanity is all we have when those without it attempt to reduce our humanity.
Maybe, just maybe, women’s bodies shouldn’t be purchased as a commodity for breeding purposes. Good for Italy!
From Italy, the news didn’t talk about it at all…
[removed]
Wait the article says surrogacy is banned in the US too. But this can’t be true?
I have family members that were unable to conceive themselves and just had their surrogate daughter a few months ago. I’ve seen advertising for the agency/company they used throughout SF.
Is this specifically just a ban on specific types of surrogacy?
It makes sense to ban commercial surrogacy because of how quickly it can become exploitative. In most countries, this is already the case. However, banning voluntary/altruistic surrogacy doesn’t make much sense. These are much desired children that are well looked after.
Same-sex couples are not allowed *any* form of adoption in Italy. Basically, you’re not allowed to start a family as a same-sex couple. Probably will be difficult if you’re an infertile heterosexual couple as well, given that the article already mentions that most couples (90%) using a surrogate are heterosexual. This makes me think that Italy has the same problem as other western European countries, where there are way more adoptive parents (heterosexuals alone) on the waiting list than there are adoptable children. Often, adopting from abroad is limit as well because of similar exploitation concerns.
So, we have problems with declining birth rates, and then they block even altruistic surrogacy?! I really don’t get the problem with e.g. a gay couple and a lesbian couple teaming up to have children. Pure homophobia. But what can I say, the pope asked for a blanket ban on surrogacy world wide. Commercial surrogacy, fine. But voluntary surrogacy?? It’s like people don’t even realise it is a thing as well.
EDIT: Of course two heterosexual couples with one infertile partner each can also help each other, which is also blocked now.
Well this is totally fucked up.
Seems dumb to me
They also said that it’s a “universal crime” that means it will be possible to prosecute Italian citizens who use it even in countries where the practice is legal
Why and how is it bad?
Surrogacy is disgusting. Nobody should be doing it.
Being concerned about the impact of surrogates and most especially donor conceived children doesn’t make you anti gay. Look at some of the Reddit groups for conceived children. Most have very complex feelings and anger about being donor conceived and being created from the outset with the intent of denying them a connection to their biology. The first concern should be the children and it’s been shown it can be traumatic to be donor conceived.
The world over, some people want to unfairly dictate or constrain the rights of others. They must be called out and stopped. It’s 2024. We’ve come a long way but we’re just beginning to open our eyes.
I think the best solution is what the UK does. Where surrogacy is legal on voluntary you are not allowed to profit from it. You are only allowed to cover expenses associated with pregnancy and that includes loss of earnings. Also you have to cover heath and life insurance in case of complications.
Should the desire to become a parent trump the prevention of exploitation, cruelty or trafficking?
Right wing always telling people what they can’t do with their bodies
It just doesn’t make sense to me. Surrogacy has zero impact on anyone but the couple who wants a child (ie making them happy). Why would you ever be against this? I guess I can see why someone might be against commercial surrogacy, but to ban it outright…. That’s just nonsense.
You vote far right, you get far right.
Very surprising for a country that was such an early adopter of the gay. What would the Romans think?
Not surprising. Italy is so Catholic it hurts.
This might make some of you mad, but surrogacy is a form of sexual slavery. If someone wouldn’t do it for free, it’s no different than paying them for sex (illegal). Gay men do not have the right to buy and use women’s bodies as tools. They’re men, just like straight men. Women are not incubators, and no one would willingly give away their baby to a random couple for nothing in return.
As it should be
I (44F) tried being a surrogate at 20. I didn’t have kids yet. I had read about pregnancy at a younger age could lower certain cancer risks. No idea now if it was true. I couldn’t get pregnant so I thought I was sterile. Figured out later that the arm implant birth control I had sometimes affects you for years after it is out. Short story long, the couple were very nice. I really wanted to help them. I had no intentions of raising a child until after graduate school. I don’t remember what the compensation was. But I think mostly it was pregnancy clothes, healthy food, etc. then something nominal like $5k. I hope they kept trying. They would have been great parents.
Children are people, not products to be created and sold by an industry.
Catholics
The fascists: always focused on controlling vaginas.
Good, surrogacy is immoral.
You mean other than the usual Indian way of an arranged marriage?
This to go to the EU courts, this looks like a violation on one of the same laws in EU, the same that got Hungary ñ’s LGBT free zone got them suspended of many Euro programs and monetary help
Gay couples should not raise kids, they already made the decision not to reproduce by being gay. How would these kids grow up to be emotionally stable, as they would most likely be sexually abused? Would you want your 16 year old daughter moving in with a couple gay guys?
Kids naturally need a mother and father figure. Look at the crime and drug rates of kids in a single parent family. Give the kids a fair chance.
Ugh. Guess I’m never going to Italy then.
Fuck you, Italy.