Good. It’s unbelievable that Russia has managed to violate multiple international treaties, when Ukraine is suffering for trying to abide by them. We’ve been playing the “oblivious school teacher” role for too long.
That’s wild but actually reasonable at the same time, how can smaller countries achieve security when their neighbor keeps attacking them ? Either but building alliances or by nuclear deterrence.
It’s hypocritical to have major powers with all of the nukes being able to do anything they want or else they will nuke you.
At the same time the less countries have nukes the better.
This looks like a political stunt to pressure Nato to let Ukraine join more of an actual intent to have nukes, Ukraine definitely doesn’t have the resources for that.
Since the west were instrumental in the deal to remove the nuclear weapons in the first place they should be obligated to remove Russia from Ukraine at this point.
I hope NATO accepts Ukraine but if not, developing nuclear weapon would be a reasonable step to take. However, it is uncertain how Russia might respond to this news!
Well well well
As a former nuclear state that peacefully gave up its arsenal, I’d say Ukraine has as much right to nuclear weapons as any other country. The world gave Ukraine legal guarantees in exchange for disarmament, and the world failed those guarantees.
Can they join the EU and/or NATO while they’re actively at war?
I thought that wasn’t allowed but could be wrong..
Ukraine relinquished nukes for security assurances and then Russia invaded them 30 years later anyway, seems sensible since their neighbour is being aggressive and nobody else is adequately helping.
Give them nukes
Good discussion about this going on another thread, but the source was the Kyiv Post, who in turn used Bild as a source, which suggested they’d have one in “weeks”. So unfortunately that’s now deleted – bullshit from Bild, but some great comments/analysis.
In short – this is potential suicide for Ukraine.
There are *strong* treaties against the proliferation of nukes, which we in the West largely police, see Iran for example. Turning a blind eye to this causes a total geopolitical nightmare which gets very nasty, potentially very quickly.
It’s a choice for Ukraine – pursue this, or risk losing Western backing. The US for a start will be having none of it.
That might be the answer though – Zelensky is being shrewd, as ever, and giving a hearty ultimatum. Give us more support, or we go nuclear. Whether that risk is worth it for us, and I’d imagine more details are being given via back channels, remains to be seen.
This is likely Zelensky forcing us into a tough position – either help us, or we go for the nuclear option.
Let’s just hope it works out.
If they hadn’t given them up in the first place they wouldn’t have been invaded. The west abandoning them after guaranteeing their territorial integrity will guarantee both that no one will ever give up their nukes if they have them, and if they don’t that they should get them.
The West is playing softball with Russia because imo we aren’t serious about Ukraine winning, we are just serious about bleeding the Russians dry and attempting to cause a second collapse of the Russian government.
Either the West mans up and greatly expedites weapon shipments AND removes ALL asinine weapon restrictions (both militarily and politically stupid I might add, cowardly Biden and Germany) or provide Ukraine with nuclear weapons and tell Putin to eat shit.
Asking Ukraine to militarily defeat Russia with 1 hand tied behind their back is just insane.
Good luck with that.
Diplomatically and politically, is this a good idea to say out loud? I mean for American and European audiences. I support Ukraine, but there is no way that providing them nuclear weapons is a good idea, and I’m guessing it be essentially impossible for them to enrich their own weapons-grade uranium or plutonium (Russia would just bomb them). The U.S. isn’t about to destroy nonproliferation to protect Ukraine.
If it’s a soft threat that Ukraine must allowed into NATO, I don’t see that as good diplomacy either, and neither will voters. Maybe it’s implying a third option, like a separate security guarantee from the U.S.?
From a defence standpoint, Ukraine really has every right to pursue this course of action as unfortunate as that is. They co-operated and disarmed the leftover nuclear arsenal from the USSR and as a result they’re now in the one circumstance that EVERY nation uses as a reason for why they have nukes “If we don’t have them, we get fucked”.
No Nato? Okay well then they’re obviously going to pursue whatever route they can to stonewall any future offensive.
There gonna be more nations pursue nuclear weapons. It is surprising easy for a nation to acquire or develop nuclear weapons.
I mean, what a symbol to every country, that giving up nuclear weapons and get security deals with two powerful nations will prevent you from beeing invaded. I mean who would give up their nuclear arsenal ever now?
What’s sad is that if the West had given Ukraine what it needed when the war began, there’s a good chance that we wouldn’t be discussing Ukraine building nukes now.
Delays, appeasement, and stupidity have consequences.
Ok, well as a damn Yankee I think he can do whatever he wants. We didn’t ask permission and neither did any other atomic power. Europe wanting to pretend he needs to justify defending his nation against Russia is laughable. I hope he fights, I hope he wins! Glory to Ukraine!
It’s an opening bid. So sad that this is the world situation.
That actually sounds reasonable. No one wants nuclear proliferation, but aside from capitulation, Ukraine has no other options left—especially with the West being highly reluctant to put boots on the ground and directly assist Ukraine.
I hear North Korea has some recently acquired nuclear secrets it’d sell for the right price…
Give back the nukes that Ukraine gave up for the Budapest memorandum. That memorandum is void due to russia..
working on the Palyanytsya with special sauce
Well they are facing an existential crisis, they gave up their weapons for a security garuntee that prohibited Russia, the United States and the United Kingdom from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine.
They were also told to Respect the signatory’s independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
I do not blame them for restarting the program, and well that is theirs to balance and judge. Something will have to give soon and I feel this is a play at trying to proliferate the necessary needs to defeat russia and take back their land or make the russian state consider their next moves and force them to negotiations.
Ukraine are in a corner, but lets hope this war ends soon, before things get too blurred and dicey.
And who could blame them?
Don’t blame them one bit.
Putin disliked this
Fair enough.
It’s always important to consider WHY people say things more than WHAT they say. This is the first time Ukraine has mentioned it’s own nukes. Why?
They want a path to end the war. They seized parts of Kursk to get Russia’s attention, and to divert resources from other sectors in the south. That was never going to be a permanent occupation, and indeed – the Russians are already re-claiming Kursk territory that Ukraine was never seriously expecting to actually HOLD – just rather to keep bleeding the Russians, but on home turf.
The West is dithering on giving them what they figure they need to win the war – additional machinery, capabilities, and permission to strike further into Russia to mitigate the danger of stand-off bombing, active missile defense, ultimately a no-fly zone or direct intervention. So – Ukraine is not-so-gently reminding people they had the third largest arsenal in the world in 1991, and still have the capability to get back at least to where North Korea and Pakistan are in terms of capability, if you keep screwing with them.
It’s a shot across the bow more to the West than to Russia, I’d wager. Help us, or we’re going to have to help ourselves in a more escalatory way.
This is a great opportunity for the west to say “sorry Putin, Ukraine is forcing our hand and we have to give them more support, lift restrictions, etc.” On the world stage we can blame Russia now.
Though I wish they’d timed this for after the election.
Not sure nukes will help them. Putin talks nukes but unlikely to actually use them. And all Ukrainian nukes can actually do is deter a Russian nuke strike. If neither country can afford to use them then it doesn’t really change anything. What Ukraine really needs are serious deep strike weapons so they can blow up Moscow power plants when their own are hit, etc. There need to be consequences for Russia targeting civilians and infrastructure.
They never should have given up their arms to begin with
I think Zelenskey understands the world as it is. Either it’s strength in alliances, or it’s strength in nuclear warheads.
Fuck russia
Let’s just all have nukes. Why should Pakistan have them, and not Ukraine? Why only North Korea, and not South Korea? If China has nukes, so should Japan and Taiwan. Then let’s see a fucker try to start something. It’ll be the ultimate Mexican standoff. Non-proliferation is dead. RIP.
how fast coud they do it?
This is propaganda. He did not say this anywhere. If he did, please provide a link. .
Why is he saying, he talked to Trump or Trump is ok with this? Hes not the current president, has no mandate. Plus the EU hates Trump. This makes no sense.
I guess he won’t be around much longer?
Nuclear proliferation will become a thing If russia gets their way and Ukraine will be forced to concede territory in exchange for somekind of short term peace. My country ratified the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, but seeing how actually systemic weak russia is and yet gets away with so much bs, I don’t see any reason to uphold it anymore. What good does a strong, well trained and equipped army do, if russians just keeps bombing civilian infrastructure while everyone else is too afraid to retaliate because of nukes?
They were promised protection in exchange for dismantling their nukes after the fall of the Soviet Union. of course they’re going to start back up once its clear that agreement was bullshit.
This is like all the Americans getting pissed off at Iran for restarting their nuke program after we reneged on all our promises. Like what did you expect to happen?
I think this is more so posturing to deal with the threat of a trump presidency, the moment Ukraine starts down the path of obtaining nukes they will likely lose basically all material western support, leaving them by themselves to try complete a bomb before the front lines crumble without the western support, meanwhile Putin would likely be doing anything and everything in his power to destroy Ukrainian nuclear infrastructure. I know they are not starting from nothing, but there is a lot of steps and testing before getting a functioning weapon. It just seems like a pretty big gamble
Neither happening.
Too bad they gave up the Russian nukes in good faith leaving them nothing to deter a Russian invasion.
Ukraine getting annihilated in a conventional war and Ukraine getting annihilated in a nuclear war are the same exact thing if you’re Ukrainian.
While still a long process, Ukraine is absolutely capable of producing a functional nuclear weapon, probably in as few of 2-3 years after starting the program.
We were capable of making them with 1945 technology. Engineering has improved just marginally since then /s.
With modern tech, any nation in the top 60-70 economies, could access nuclear weapons relatively quickly. If we want to keep nuclear weapons from becoming a norm, we need to ensure that those nations have the backing of the rest of the world, or else every Tom, Dick and Hungary will have nukes
What worries me most about this situation is not that Zelensky is seeking nuclear proliferation; what concerns me is that statements like this make me think Zelensky is incredibly desperate. He already was before, but right now the only thing this type of statement means to me is that Ukraine is closer to the brink than we think.
Why not both? Regardless of how this war ends, this won’t be the end of Russian aggression towards them. They gave up their nukes for the agreement that Russia wouldn’t invade. That obviously didn’t work. Hundreds of thousands of their citizens have died defending their country from invasion while waiting on support from their NATO friends. At this point they are well within their rights to use/develop any means necessary to defend their country and not depend on agreements with other nations for peace and security. At this point, every developed nation should donate nuclear weapons to Ukraine and they can give Russia an ultimatum. What’s Russia going to do? Nuke everyone else? We can all either fight Russia in Ukraine or we will have to do it in one of our countries at a later date. Look to history to see how this is going to play out. Squash the bug now before it gets too big to handle.
50 comments
Good. It’s unbelievable that Russia has managed to violate multiple international treaties, when Ukraine is suffering for trying to abide by them. We’ve been playing the “oblivious school teacher” role for too long.
That’s wild but actually reasonable at the same time, how can smaller countries achieve security when their neighbor keeps attacking them ? Either but building alliances or by nuclear deterrence.
It’s hypocritical to have major powers with all of the nukes being able to do anything they want or else they will nuke you.
At the same time the less countries have nukes the better.
This looks like a political stunt to pressure Nato to let Ukraine join more of an actual intent to have nukes, Ukraine definitely doesn’t have the resources for that.
Since the west were instrumental in the deal to remove the nuclear weapons in the first place they should be obligated to remove Russia from Ukraine at this point.
I hope NATO accepts Ukraine but if not, developing nuclear weapon would be a reasonable step to take. However, it is uncertain how Russia might respond to this news!
Well well well
As a former nuclear state that peacefully gave up its arsenal, I’d say Ukraine has as much right to nuclear weapons as any other country. The world gave Ukraine legal guarantees in exchange for disarmament, and the world failed those guarantees.
Can they join the EU and/or NATO while they’re actively at war?
I thought that wasn’t allowed but could be wrong..
Ukraine relinquished nukes for security assurances and then Russia invaded them 30 years later anyway, seems sensible since their neighbour is being aggressive and nobody else is adequately helping.
Give them nukes
Good discussion about this going on another thread, but the source was the Kyiv Post, who in turn used Bild as a source, which suggested they’d have one in “weeks”. So unfortunately that’s now deleted – bullshit from Bild, but some great comments/analysis.
In short – this is potential suicide for Ukraine.
There are *strong* treaties against the proliferation of nukes, which we in the West largely police, see Iran for example. Turning a blind eye to this causes a total geopolitical nightmare which gets very nasty, potentially very quickly.
It’s a choice for Ukraine – pursue this, or risk losing Western backing. The US for a start will be having none of it.
That might be the answer though – Zelensky is being shrewd, as ever, and giving a hearty ultimatum. Give us more support, or we go nuclear. Whether that risk is worth it for us, and I’d imagine more details are being given via back channels, remains to be seen.
This is likely Zelensky forcing us into a tough position – either help us, or we go for the nuclear option.
Let’s just hope it works out.
If they hadn’t given them up in the first place they wouldn’t have been invaded. The west abandoning them after guaranteeing their territorial integrity will guarantee both that no one will ever give up their nukes if they have them, and if they don’t that they should get them.
The West is playing softball with Russia because imo we aren’t serious about Ukraine winning, we are just serious about bleeding the Russians dry and attempting to cause a second collapse of the Russian government.
Either the West mans up and greatly expedites weapon shipments AND removes ALL asinine weapon restrictions (both militarily and politically stupid I might add, cowardly Biden and Germany) or provide Ukraine with nuclear weapons and tell Putin to eat shit.
Asking Ukraine to militarily defeat Russia with 1 hand tied behind their back is just insane.
Good luck with that.
Diplomatically and politically, is this a good idea to say out loud? I mean for American and European audiences. I support Ukraine, but there is no way that providing them nuclear weapons is a good idea, and I’m guessing it be essentially impossible for them to enrich their own weapons-grade uranium or plutonium (Russia would just bomb them). The U.S. isn’t about to destroy nonproliferation to protect Ukraine.
If it’s a soft threat that Ukraine must allowed into NATO, I don’t see that as good diplomacy either, and neither will voters. Maybe it’s implying a third option, like a separate security guarantee from the U.S.?
From a defence standpoint, Ukraine really has every right to pursue this course of action as unfortunate as that is. They co-operated and disarmed the leftover nuclear arsenal from the USSR and as a result they’re now in the one circumstance that EVERY nation uses as a reason for why they have nukes “If we don’t have them, we get fucked”.
No Nato? Okay well then they’re obviously going to pursue whatever route they can to stonewall any future offensive.
There gonna be more nations pursue nuclear weapons. It is surprising easy for a nation to acquire or develop nuclear weapons.
I mean, what a symbol to every country, that giving up nuclear weapons and get security deals with two powerful nations will prevent you from beeing invaded. I mean who would give up their nuclear arsenal ever now?
What’s sad is that if the West had given Ukraine what it needed when the war began, there’s a good chance that we wouldn’t be discussing Ukraine building nukes now.
Delays, appeasement, and stupidity have consequences.
Ok, well as a damn Yankee I think he can do whatever he wants. We didn’t ask permission and neither did any other atomic power. Europe wanting to pretend he needs to justify defending his nation against Russia is laughable. I hope he fights, I hope he wins! Glory to Ukraine!
It’s an opening bid. So sad that this is the world situation.
That actually sounds reasonable. No one wants nuclear proliferation, but aside from capitulation, Ukraine has no other options left—especially with the West being highly reluctant to put boots on the ground and directly assist Ukraine.
I hear North Korea has some recently acquired nuclear secrets it’d sell for the right price…
Give back the nukes that Ukraine gave up for the Budapest memorandum. That memorandum is void due to russia..
working on the Palyanytsya with special sauce
Well they are facing an existential crisis, they gave up their weapons for a security garuntee that prohibited Russia, the United States and the United Kingdom from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine.
They were also told to Respect the signatory’s independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
I do not blame them for restarting the program, and well that is theirs to balance and judge. Something will have to give soon and I feel this is a play at trying to proliferate the necessary needs to defeat russia and take back their land or make the russian state consider their next moves and force them to negotiations.
Ukraine are in a corner, but lets hope this war ends soon, before things get too blurred and dicey.
And who could blame them?
Don’t blame them one bit.
Putin disliked this
Fair enough.
It’s always important to consider WHY people say things more than WHAT they say. This is the first time Ukraine has mentioned it’s own nukes. Why?
They want a path to end the war. They seized parts of Kursk to get Russia’s attention, and to divert resources from other sectors in the south. That was never going to be a permanent occupation, and indeed – the Russians are already re-claiming Kursk territory that Ukraine was never seriously expecting to actually HOLD – just rather to keep bleeding the Russians, but on home turf.
The West is dithering on giving them what they figure they need to win the war – additional machinery, capabilities, and permission to strike further into Russia to mitigate the danger of stand-off bombing, active missile defense, ultimately a no-fly zone or direct intervention. So – Ukraine is not-so-gently reminding people they had the third largest arsenal in the world in 1991, and still have the capability to get back at least to where North Korea and Pakistan are in terms of capability, if you keep screwing with them.
It’s a shot across the bow more to the West than to Russia, I’d wager. Help us, or we’re going to have to help ourselves in a more escalatory way.
This is a great opportunity for the west to say “sorry Putin, Ukraine is forcing our hand and we have to give them more support, lift restrictions, etc.” On the world stage we can blame Russia now.
Though I wish they’d timed this for after the election.
Not sure nukes will help them. Putin talks nukes but unlikely to actually use them. And all Ukrainian nukes can actually do is deter a Russian nuke strike. If neither country can afford to use them then it doesn’t really change anything. What Ukraine really needs are serious deep strike weapons so they can blow up Moscow power plants when their own are hit, etc. There need to be consequences for Russia targeting civilians and infrastructure.
They never should have given up their arms to begin with
I think Zelenskey understands the world as it is. Either it’s strength in alliances, or it’s strength in nuclear warheads.
Fuck russia
Let’s just all have nukes. Why should Pakistan have them, and not Ukraine? Why only North Korea, and not South Korea? If China has nukes, so should Japan and Taiwan. Then let’s see a fucker try to start something. It’ll be the ultimate Mexican standoff. Non-proliferation is dead. RIP.
how fast coud they do it?
This is propaganda. He did not say this anywhere. If he did, please provide a link. .
Why is he saying, he talked to Trump or Trump is ok with this? Hes not the current president, has no mandate. Plus the EU hates Trump. This makes no sense.
I guess he won’t be around much longer?
Nuclear proliferation will become a thing If russia gets their way and Ukraine will be forced to concede territory in exchange for somekind of short term peace. My country ratified the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, but seeing how actually systemic weak russia is and yet gets away with so much bs, I don’t see any reason to uphold it anymore. What good does a strong, well trained and equipped army do, if russians just keeps bombing civilian infrastructure while everyone else is too afraid to retaliate because of nukes?
They were promised protection in exchange for dismantling their nukes after the fall of the Soviet Union. of course they’re going to start back up once its clear that agreement was bullshit.
This is like all the Americans getting pissed off at Iran for restarting their nuke program after we reneged on all our promises. Like what did you expect to happen?
Is this legit? There are already [sources ](https://x.com/jurgen_nauditt/status/1846956155714551827)denying he said it.
I think this is more so posturing to deal with the threat of a trump presidency, the moment Ukraine starts down the path of obtaining nukes they will likely lose basically all material western support, leaving them by themselves to try complete a bomb before the front lines crumble without the western support, meanwhile Putin would likely be doing anything and everything in his power to destroy Ukrainian nuclear infrastructure. I know they are not starting from nothing, but there is a lot of steps and testing before getting a functioning weapon. It just seems like a pretty big gamble
Neither happening.
Too bad they gave up the Russian nukes in good faith leaving them nothing to deter a Russian invasion.
Ukraine getting annihilated in a conventional war and Ukraine getting annihilated in a nuclear war are the same exact thing if you’re Ukrainian.
While still a long process, Ukraine is absolutely capable of producing a functional nuclear weapon, probably in as few of 2-3 years after starting the program.
We were capable of making them with 1945 technology. Engineering has improved just marginally since then /s.
With modern tech, any nation in the top 60-70 economies, could access nuclear weapons relatively quickly. If we want to keep nuclear weapons from becoming a norm, we need to ensure that those nations have the backing of the rest of the world, or else every Tom, Dick and Hungary will have nukes
What worries me most about this situation is not that Zelensky is seeking nuclear proliferation; what concerns me is that statements like this make me think Zelensky is incredibly desperate. He already was before, but right now the only thing this type of statement means to me is that Ukraine is closer to the brink than we think.
Why not both? Regardless of how this war ends, this won’t be the end of Russian aggression towards them. They gave up their nukes for the agreement that Russia wouldn’t invade. That obviously didn’t work. Hundreds of thousands of their citizens have died defending their country from invasion while waiting on support from their NATO friends. At this point they are well within their rights to use/develop any means necessary to defend their country and not depend on agreements with other nations for peace and security. At this point, every developed nation should donate nuclear weapons to Ukraine and they can give Russia an ultimatum. What’s Russia going to do? Nuke everyone else? We can all either fight Russia in Ukraine or we will have to do it in one of our countries at a later date. Look to history to see how this is going to play out. Squash the bug now before it gets too big to handle.