Ireland will never join NATO because we have a territorial dispute with a current nato member.
Hopefully good, “neutral” seems to have lost much of its significance recently
Neutrality only benefits the oppressor.
Zap Brannigan knows all about neutrals!
Yes, and stop using it as shorthand for militarily non-aligned. It’s just us, Austria and Malta now in the EU. What do we plan to do? I’d say no to NATO, yes to EU defense, and recruit enough people to do it.
Neutral = let other states carry their defence costs?
As a member of the EU (which is under attack), Ireland has to decide whether that’s worth defending.
Neutrality means that the UK pays for Island defence
Ireland is coming from a place from decades of poverty since independence. Yes there is lots of money in the government coffers now but it’s a recent phenomenon and the government are a bit like someone who was penniless and had now won the euro millions.
Despite all this new money there are a lot of social ills, housing, health, education. No different to any other western country at the moment but it’s an easy sound bite for our far left parties to say that military spending is a waste of money when we have people living on the streets. These guys get an inordinate amount of media attention considering they get about 2% of the vote come election day.
When you talk about security in Ireland the first thing is what’s the point who’s going to invade us? Which isn’t the point at all, I live 500 meters from a police station so it’s unlikely that my house will be broken into but I still lock my doors and windows.
For all the banging on about our history with the UK we are reliant on them to ensure our own sovereignty.
There is a case in the courts trying to reveal the deal the government has with the UK to police our airspace, there is also an election upcoming and Sinn Fein, who historically are very Republican (not in the US sense), are gunning to be in government, I wonder what their take on this UK deal will be, considering their historic “brits out” mantra.
Interesting days ahead for sure..
Ireland is not neutral. To be neutral you actually need to have the ability to defend yourself or take action but chose not to. Ireland is harmless. There is a difference.
It literally does not have the ability for defence even if it wanted, it has no sonar or military radar capabilities, it entirely relies on the UK for this.
NATO is neutral. If NATO wasn’t neutral, the war would be over.
Ireland should drop this neutral act. Join NATO immediately. Stop wasting money. Start building homes. Start arming our joke of a military. Start building it up.
We’ll never become a super power but can become a country that is willing to defend not just our democracy but all democracies. We know what it is like to be ruled by a bunch of torturous brutes but turn a blind eye to Ukraine. Let’s join NATO and put boots on the ground just to force the EU and NATO to stop being compliant in the slaughter of innocent Ukrainians.
If Ireland is to do this I will immediately enlist for the defense of democracy. If you aren’t willing to fight for democracy you don’t deserve to reap it’s rewards
I don’t get why people expect the Irish to join NATO. The only historic threat to them is the British and we’re not going to attack them. Britain’s fine defending Irish space as it gives us more power over the area. I also imagine the British government would be annoyed if we lost this ability. This entire debate should be between Ireland and the UK. EU countries arguing that they defend Ireland is just ridiculous.
As for the EU, Ireland joined an economic and political union not a military one. Most European countries were happy to be neutral when they weren’t threatened.
Ireland is not neutral, it’s defenseless.
We are as neutral as friends with benefits are celibrate
OK so…
Irish defense positions have ***always*** been political (not defense) posture designed to satisfy local sentiments and checkbox ideological needs. The primary factor, historically, has been to obfuscate the UK’s role as primary defender of the Island. The actual defense policy is: Royal Navy…. likely secured by secret deals and understandings over the years.
As the cold war matured, the average irish person (erroneously) came to believe that “the Yanks” secretly do Irish defense instead of “The Brits.” This was more convenient for everyone.
It was always a lie. Conveniently made possible by the fact that Ireland has never experienced “external” security crisis or need. Ireland had successfully avoided participation in two world wars. So “fake neutrality” was always popular. The country was always secure. No one had to go to war. No one had to admit the unbearable fact that Ireland was under British protection and had always been. Touch nose… as they say.
Why change such a policy? “We have it too good” is not an effective political message.
>…Here are just a few examples. I list below five types of nationalist, and against each I append a fact which it is impossible for that type of nationalist to accept, even in his secret thoughts:
>*British Tory:* Britain will come out of this war with reduced power and prestige.
>*Communist:* If she had not been aided by Britain and America, Russia would have been defeated by Germany.
>*Irish Nationalist:* Eire can only remain independent because of British protection.
>*Trotskyist:* The Stalin régime is accepted by the Russian masses.
>*Pacifist:* Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.
>All of these facts are grossly obvious if one’s emotions do not happen to be involved: but to the kind of person named in each case they are also *intolerable*, and so they have to be denied, and false theories constructed upon their denial. I come back to the astonishing failure of military prediction in the present war. It is, I think, true to say that the intelligentsia have been more wrong about the progress of the war than the common people, and that they were more swayed by partisan feelings. The average intellectual of the Left believed, for instance, that the war was lost in 1940, that the Germans were bound to overrun Egypt in 1942, that the Japanese would never be driven out of the lands they had conquered, and that the Anglo-American bombing offensive was making no impression on Germany. He could believe these things because his hatred for the British ruling class forbade him to admit that British plans could succeed.
There is no limit to the follies that can be swallowed if one is under the influence of feelings of this kind. I have heard it confidently stated, for instance, that the American troops had been brought to Europe not to fight the Germans but to crush an English revolution….
Wonderful essay. Note that Orwell himself was a radical. A socialist. A critique of the British ruling class. He served as a volunteer in a Trotskyist militia. He just called as he saw. In 1945 the air was thick with this kind of slosh and he couldn’t stand it.
Much like 2024, in a lot of ways. Reddit is as good an example as any.
Edit/Postscript: Comment so far have been case in point. Facts are always subservient to sentiment.
Hopefully neutral continues to mean support of human rights
I want money pumped into our infrastructure and housing and to increase defence forces wages before it gets put into the back pocket of foreign wealthy shareholders and their defence corporations.
We can either join NATO or try to emulate the Swiss version of neutrality. Either way, we would have to militarise. Our government has severely under funded our military for too long.
From the article: “She said that she had grown up with “a passionate hatred of England”, she said she and classmates had gathered for assembly in school every morning “beneath the Crucifix and the Proclamation of Independence with the photographs of what we considered the seven martyrs who’d signed (it).”
“The only version of Irish history we heard was one of Irish heroism and English perfidy. There was never any questioning of that. It was easy to hate English and England as an abstraction because you never really encountered any English people,” she said.”
“She was appointed a Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire in 2022 in recognition for her efforts at the University of Oxford and, earlier, the University of St Andrews to increase the number of undergraduates from poorer backgrounds”
“In addition, the honour, which entitles her to the title “Dame”, marked her work to secure the partnership with AstraZeneca for the production and distribution of the Covid-19 vaccine developed at University of Oxford.”
“During her terms leading two of the United Kingdom’s top universities, she said “the biggest surprise” came when she realised how many people “particularly in Conservative circles in Britain had never really adapted to Irish independence”.”
“They never felt that Ireland was a completely independent country,” she said”
This woman is a swamp creature, groomed by the global political machine aligned to NATO and the EU for the benefit of any future wars by making it as militarily vast as possible. That machine needs money and young men for war, Ireland to them is simply another small building block to build their global hegemonic military and economic empire. They care not for liberty or peace, they want ever increasing economic control – or war if they cannot achieve it.
Ireland is now being politically groomed to join NATO and the coming EU Army and this woman is nothing but one of their messengers hand picked for the role after being groomed abroad with fancy titles, and luctrative high appointment after high appointment for decades.
As an Irishman I hope she and the shadowy power players behind her fail.
The only forces Ireland should worry about defending itself against are the forces behind this woman trying to groom it to become a military force to be deployed abroad for their ever increasing benefit, they want political, economic and military control of as much of the world as possible – Ireland included.
Ireland does not need or want war. It wants peace, the Irish people are a peaceful people.
No wars, and no empire building. Do not fall for this grooming propaganda.
Love looking at a bunch of foreigners who no nothing about us deciding what we should do.
It means having Britain do you r defence whilst endlessly whining about them
The worst kind of neutrality
Ireland, if the royal navy fucked off to the med to fight Russia, you’d be defenceless.
We already have, it means non-membership of defence alliances.
Get ready Irish people, it’s your turn to get shit on again.
Ireland has never been netrual. Ireland sided with the allies in WW2, holding German airmen as pows while releasing allies back to the NI border. Ireland supported the merchant navy and fed intelligence to the British throughout the war. Ireland had plans to militarise if there was an invasion. Post war, Ireland has continued to support American and British group movements. Ireland has also gotten involved in multiple peace keeping operations around the world. Irish neturality is more of a non aggression stance.
Spoiler: There will be no decision since there is no immediate pressure to make one.
The following countries were Neutral during WW2.
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Iceland, Switzerland, ireland, Portugal, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Turkey, Andora, Liechtenstein, Monaco, San marino, Afghanistan, bhutan, Iran, saudia arabia, Yemen, netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourge argentina and the US
The following countries were either invaded, participated, or got pulled in against its will.
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Iceland, Switzerland, ireland, Portugal, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Turkey, Monaco, San marino, iran, saudia arabia,netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourge argentina and the US
even ireland was not unscathed during WW2 suffering air raids, and attacks on our shipping vessels. we also worked with the allies to allow them access to our shipping yards for repairs.
*TRUE* neutrality is not something ireland has ever done
29 comments
Ireland will never join NATO because we have a territorial dispute with a current nato member.
Hopefully good, “neutral” seems to have lost much of its significance recently
Neutrality only benefits the oppressor.
Zap Brannigan knows all about neutrals!
Yes, and stop using it as shorthand for militarily non-aligned. It’s just us, Austria and Malta now in the EU. What do we plan to do? I’d say no to NATO, yes to EU defense, and recruit enough people to do it.
Neutral = let other states carry their defence costs?
As a member of the EU (which is under attack), Ireland has to decide whether that’s worth defending.
Neutrality means that the UK pays for Island defence
Ireland is coming from a place from decades of poverty since independence. Yes there is lots of money in the government coffers now but it’s a recent phenomenon and the government are a bit like someone who was penniless and had now won the euro millions.
Despite all this new money there are a lot of social ills, housing, health, education. No different to any other western country at the moment but it’s an easy sound bite for our far left parties to say that military spending is a waste of money when we have people living on the streets. These guys get an inordinate amount of media attention considering they get about 2% of the vote come election day.
When you talk about security in Ireland the first thing is what’s the point who’s going to invade us? Which isn’t the point at all, I live 500 meters from a police station so it’s unlikely that my house will be broken into but I still lock my doors and windows.
For all the banging on about our history with the UK we are reliant on them to ensure our own sovereignty.
There is a case in the courts trying to reveal the deal the government has with the UK to police our airspace, there is also an election upcoming and Sinn Fein, who historically are very Republican (not in the US sense), are gunning to be in government, I wonder what their take on this UK deal will be, considering their historic “brits out” mantra.
Interesting days ahead for sure..
Ireland is not neutral. To be neutral you actually need to have the ability to defend yourself or take action but chose not to. Ireland is harmless. There is a difference.
It literally does not have the ability for defence even if it wanted, it has no sonar or military radar capabilities, it entirely relies on the UK for this.
NATO is neutral. If NATO wasn’t neutral, the war would be over.
Ireland should drop this neutral act. Join NATO immediately. Stop wasting money. Start building homes. Start arming our joke of a military. Start building it up.
We’ll never become a super power but can become a country that is willing to defend not just our democracy but all democracies. We know what it is like to be ruled by a bunch of torturous brutes but turn a blind eye to Ukraine. Let’s join NATO and put boots on the ground just to force the EU and NATO to stop being compliant in the slaughter of innocent Ukrainians.
If Ireland is to do this I will immediately enlist for the defense of democracy. If you aren’t willing to fight for democracy you don’t deserve to reap it’s rewards
I don’t get why people expect the Irish to join NATO. The only historic threat to them is the British and we’re not going to attack them. Britain’s fine defending Irish space as it gives us more power over the area. I also imagine the British government would be annoyed if we lost this ability. This entire debate should be between Ireland and the UK. EU countries arguing that they defend Ireland is just ridiculous.
As for the EU, Ireland joined an economic and political union not a military one. Most European countries were happy to be neutral when they weren’t threatened.
Ireland is not neutral, it’s defenseless.
We are as neutral as friends with benefits are celibrate
OK so…
Irish defense positions have ***always*** been political (not defense) posture designed to satisfy local sentiments and checkbox ideological needs. The primary factor, historically, has been to obfuscate the UK’s role as primary defender of the Island. The actual defense policy is: Royal Navy…. likely secured by secret deals and understandings over the years.
As the cold war matured, the average irish person (erroneously) came to believe that “the Yanks” secretly do Irish defense instead of “The Brits.” This was more convenient for everyone.
It was always a lie. Conveniently made possible by the fact that Ireland has never experienced “external” security crisis or need. Ireland had successfully avoided participation in two world wars. So “fake neutrality” was always popular. The country was always secure. No one had to go to war. No one had to admit the unbearable fact that Ireland was under British protection and had always been. Touch nose… as they say.
Why change such a policy? “We have it too good” is not an effective political message.
In “[On Nationalism](https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/), 1945″ George Orwell uses this as one of several examples of nationalist sentiments clashing with known truths… catalyzing the creation of false truths and constructed reality.
>…Here are just a few examples. I list below five types of nationalist, and against each I append a fact which it is impossible for that type of nationalist to accept, even in his secret thoughts:
>*British Tory:* Britain will come out of this war with reduced power and prestige.
>*Communist:* If she had not been aided by Britain and America, Russia would have been defeated by Germany.
>*Irish Nationalist:* Eire can only remain independent because of British protection.
>*Trotskyist:* The Stalin régime is accepted by the Russian masses.
>*Pacifist:* Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.
>All of these facts are grossly obvious if one’s emotions do not happen to be involved: but to the kind of person named in each case they are also *intolerable*, and so they have to be denied, and false theories constructed upon their denial. I come back to the astonishing failure of military prediction in the present war. It is, I think, true to say that the intelligentsia have been more wrong about the progress of the war than the common people, and that they were more swayed by partisan feelings. The average intellectual of the Left believed, for instance, that the war was lost in 1940, that the Germans were bound to overrun Egypt in 1942, that the Japanese would never be driven out of the lands they had conquered, and that the Anglo-American bombing offensive was making no impression on Germany. He could believe these things because his hatred for the British ruling class forbade him to admit that British plans could succeed.
There is no limit to the follies that can be swallowed if one is under the influence of feelings of this kind. I have heard it confidently stated, for instance, that the American troops had been brought to Europe not to fight the Germans but to crush an English revolution….
Wonderful essay. Note that Orwell himself was a radical. A socialist. A critique of the British ruling class. He served as a volunteer in a Trotskyist militia. He just called as he saw. In 1945 the air was thick with this kind of slosh and he couldn’t stand it.
Much like 2024, in a lot of ways. Reddit is as good an example as any.
Edit/Postscript: Comment so far have been case in point. Facts are always subservient to sentiment.
Hopefully neutral continues to mean support of human rights
I want money pumped into our infrastructure and housing and to increase defence forces wages before it gets put into the back pocket of foreign wealthy shareholders and their defence corporations.
We can either join NATO or try to emulate the Swiss version of neutrality. Either way, we would have to militarise. Our government has severely under funded our military for too long.
From the article: “She said that she had grown up with “a passionate hatred of England”, she said she and classmates had gathered for assembly in school every morning “beneath the Crucifix and the Proclamation of Independence with the photographs of what we considered the seven martyrs who’d signed (it).”
“The only version of Irish history we heard was one of Irish heroism and English perfidy. There was never any questioning of that. It was easy to hate English and England as an abstraction because you never really encountered any English people,” she said.”
“She was appointed a Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire in 2022 in recognition for her efforts at the University of Oxford and, earlier, the University of St Andrews to increase the number of undergraduates from poorer backgrounds”
“In addition, the honour, which entitles her to the title “Dame”, marked her work to secure the partnership with AstraZeneca for the production and distribution of the Covid-19 vaccine developed at University of Oxford.”
“During her terms leading two of the United Kingdom’s top universities, she said “the biggest surprise” came when she realised how many people “particularly in Conservative circles in Britain had never really adapted to Irish independence”.”
“They never felt that Ireland was a completely independent country,” she said”
This woman is a swamp creature, groomed by the global political machine aligned to NATO and the EU for the benefit of any future wars by making it as militarily vast as possible. That machine needs money and young men for war, Ireland to them is simply another small building block to build their global hegemonic military and economic empire. They care not for liberty or peace, they want ever increasing economic control – or war if they cannot achieve it.
Ireland is now being politically groomed to join NATO and the coming EU Army and this woman is nothing but one of their messengers hand picked for the role after being groomed abroad with fancy titles, and luctrative high appointment after high appointment for decades.
As an Irishman I hope she and the shadowy power players behind her fail.
The only forces Ireland should worry about defending itself against are the forces behind this woman trying to groom it to become a military force to be deployed abroad for their ever increasing benefit, they want political, economic and military control of as much of the world as possible – Ireland included.
Ireland does not need or want war. It wants peace, the Irish people are a peaceful people.
No wars, and no empire building. Do not fall for this grooming propaganda.
Love looking at a bunch of foreigners who no nothing about us deciding what we should do.
It means having Britain do you r defence whilst endlessly whining about them
The worst kind of neutrality
Ireland, if the royal navy fucked off to the med to fight Russia, you’d be defenceless.
We already have, it means non-membership of defence alliances.
Get ready Irish people, it’s your turn to get shit on again.
Ireland has never been netrual. Ireland sided with the allies in WW2, holding German airmen as pows while releasing allies back to the NI border. Ireland supported the merchant navy and fed intelligence to the British throughout the war. Ireland had plans to militarise if there was an invasion. Post war, Ireland has continued to support American and British group movements. Ireland has also gotten involved in multiple peace keeping operations around the world. Irish neturality is more of a non aggression stance.
Spoiler: There will be no decision since there is no immediate pressure to make one.
The following countries were Neutral during WW2.
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Iceland, Switzerland, ireland, Portugal, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Turkey, Andora, Liechtenstein, Monaco, San marino, Afghanistan, bhutan, Iran, saudia arabia, Yemen, netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourge argentina and the US
The following countries were either invaded, participated, or got pulled in against its will.
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Iceland, Switzerland, ireland, Portugal, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Turkey, Monaco, San marino, iran, saudia arabia,netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourge argentina and the US
even ireland was not unscathed during WW2 suffering air raids, and attacks on our shipping vessels. we also worked with the allies to allow them access to our shipping yards for repairs.
*TRUE* neutrality is not something ireland has ever done
Comments are closed.