Federal vote: is our government disconnected from us right now?

26 comments

1. Disconnected from left-wingers, perhaps. Because at the last election there was a swing to the right. This is just representative democracy.

   At least in Switzerland there is the possibility for the people to have the final say, which means one bad vote doesn’t lock in a certain political tilt for the whole term of parliament.

2. https://youtube.com/watch?v=0dKrUE_O0VE

3. “The government didn’t vote exactly for what I wanted, so they’re disconnected from all of us!”

   To start with, some disconnection IS necessary. People are stupid about making complex policy decisions, full direct democracy doesn’t work.

   Then just because you disagree with something doesn’t mean everyone does. For example, here’s my alignment with those initiatives: undecided, against, in favor, strongly in favor.

   BTW, have you considered that maybe you just don’t understand the vote? Especially on the 4th one, you’re getting it completely wrong. This one removes the incentive for insurance companies to send people to expensive (but subsidized for the insurance) inpatient treatments, which could be addressed by cheaper outpatient services. It will actually de-crowd hospitals and reduce (or make them rise slower) healthcare costs.

4. voted 4 x no. i hope a lot of people feel the same, but i will respect anyone, who doesn‘t.

   as for the 2. and 3. – 70-80% of the members if parlament own property. i dont think, they see a problem with the initiative but think, they are solving an important problem. 60% of the people in switzerland are paying rent, i sure hope enough people vote!

   edit:
   i dont think there is anything wrong with the initiativen or the general direction, it represents what the majority of swiss voters want.

   further, we the people can vote on the topics. if enough people feel the same as me be it, if not, im fine with it. and sometimes there are more initiativen i feel myself represented, and sometimes not. as long as we can have a say and vote on things, the parlament or council want to implement, then there is no need to feel frustrated.

   if the people arent happy about the general direction, they have to vote accordingly in the next wahlen 2027.

5. I agree with you, including the new law about the discounts, the one about the 3rd pillar.

   I thought a few days ago about how the government looks more like “against” the people than before. I was wondering if we are actually represented correctly or if there is a gap between the people and the politicians in Bern.

   Especially because most of the topics have been voted “yes” with a big margin compared to the “no”.

6. THIS is the first time you had an issue with most of the options?

   Everyone I dig into the texts I find a ton of hidden stuff that will either shift cost to citizens and away from corporations and institutions or actually make things worse for a lot of people.

   Most of the time the people impacted most will argue in favor of that change because nobody every reads anything the an the advertisements all but blatantly misrepresent the topics.

7. Generally speaking, if you don’t feel the consequences of your decisions, then you’re detached from reality. I also voted against all initiatives, because I find them borderline absurd. And I’m not left.

8. The Healthcare financing vote has a clear positive lead in polls it seems, which is very baffling to me :-/

9. > 2. Changing subletting laws

   This is the most ridiculous one tbh.
   If you do not own an appartment (or more than one), you do not benefit from that. This is … very few people compared to the non-owning majority in switzerland. If you vote for this, you can only lose! I cant understand how this is even up for debate, but frankly, I see people vote for this for no apparent reason. Like the meme with the guy who puts a stick between the spokes of the bike he is riding, blaming someone else.

10. >reducing the costs that insurances have to pay for care. Sure, it’s to ‘incentivize cheaper care’ and move the load of the expensive care more to cantons… so the people and their taxes. Didn’t we just see an increase in premiums that is insane? And now we wanna make sure they pay even less?

    This is directly connected: the increase in premiums is due to the insurances having to pay out more (ageing population, rising wages of medical workers, rising costs for medicines, etc). It’s a closed system: higher payouts, higher premiums. So if we want to reduce the premiums, insurances will have to reduce what they pay out. If we also want people to receive the same amount of healthcare, someone else needs to pay the difference. Nobody is volunteering to be the one to pay more, so that’s why we’re having votes on it.

    If it fails and we decide the cantons won’t pay, then we have to find someone else: high incomes, wealth, real estate, company taxes, inheritance taxes, etc. We can also try to get the costs down by offloading our old people onto our neighbours and bringing in more of their young people. We could increase the franchise further. There’s no limit to creative approaches, but if we vote against all those ideas too, then the premiums will just continue to go up, until the next round of votes.

11. The government wants a strong economy which I can understand to some extent and agree on. The majority vote for the right leaning politician so we have to policy the majority wants. I accept even if I disagree often.

    What I can’t accept tho is blind beliefs, the vast majority of experts (including the federal road office) on mobility advice on refusing highways extension/enlargement but the government still think they know better than the experts, this is just unacceptable.

    Edited for clarity

12. Its easy to be against something, difficult to create something new. And i dont see how you have solutions to the problems that would find easy majoritys. Its simply easier to keep the status quo, not much the government can do about it.

13. 1. There are only two regular choke points and have been for a long time: gottard tunnel (add a toll and use it to build a second tunnel and or car+rail solution), the other one the autobahn between Bern and Zurich near the Jura factory. 
    Meanwhile maybe employers stop being arseholes about working from home for those jobs where it is possible. There are more and more people coming to Switzerland. The trains are full. The roads are full. This is only going to get much much worse, having an economic impact. 

    2. As rents go up and up this problem will get worse. No one will move as it means a de facto rent increase. Have a rent price reset across the country and inform people about their rights when it comes to challenging greedy landlords. 

    3. Have a crackdown on lobbying. Just look at the links between funding to SVP from landlords. Same goes for tobacco, again, SVP. 

    4. Start including healthcare costs in inflation rates. The whole situation is a joke at this point. 

14. I am going to say, I went away for 8 months and probably could have rented out my house during that time… but I didn’t, because I was worried that I wouldn’t be able to get rid of them when I came back.

    There are a lot of people who have a room, studio, or in-law they could rent out but don’t, precisely because they worry about being stuck with a bad tenant.

15. Sometimes, you have to quote JFK, who famously said, “Ich bin ein Neinsager!”

16. Your TLDR quip summarises my opinion on the Nov 24 vote. It does feel that way especially the Autoroute and EFAS vote.

17. The governement is exactly the vote Switzerland gave last year in the Federal elections. There’s not much difference and they’re going exactly with their programs for it. But hey apparently foreigners bad is enough to forget their actual positions and votes.

18. Well to be fair.. i do agree with some of your points. But owning property myself, it is really hard to kick people out. I mean… it is my apartment. I do own it. I should have reasonable possibility to do with it what i want, obviously this might have large imapct on the person that is renting, and renters need protection, absolutely. But if i want to do with my apt whatever i want i need a proper process for that to happen.

    The subletting i dont understand. Honestly i have no clue why this would even remotely be a problem. Maybe people gaming the system? Rent an apt low and sublet for higher rent or something? Sounds to me like closing some kind of loop hole.

    Roads is a tough one… Nobody has a real good solution except expanding infrastructure. It is sometimes a nightmare in Zurich (Gubrist) or the City to drive. But also the trains are packed full. So i assume all transport means are at their maximum. Most white collar companies are allowing people to work from home 2 days a week now. So yeah go a head and vote no.. But at least they are trying to do something i guess.

    Health insurance is also a tough one. The fact is that hospitals operate at a loss. There are also not enough GPs around. The population is becoming older and need more care. The system in germany is also not so great, as people will just go to the doctor all the time because its mostly free. What we have to curb are the damn insurances making profit like crazy out of that. Healthcare should be non-profit. Nobody should be allowed to make money with that, but that’s not the world we live in. Pharma Industry is huge and insurances are lobbying heavily. Its a monstrosity of a system everywhere. “Einheitskasse” probably also a shitty solution, because then the government will squander our taxpayer money and the quality goes down the drain (see NHS and France). Not sure what to vote here.

    edit: grammer

    This being controversionl, like usual, i will most likely be downvoted into oblivion.

19. I think EFAS is somewhat redeemable in that it finally fixes the bad incentives around inpatient and outpatient care. But of course they made the entire package a trap and snuck long-term care in there as well, they just can’t help themselves to always fuck up a good idea by adding a ton of useless shit into the same initiative. (Same as the last 2nd pillar reform that had some good ideas but the full package was a hot mess).

    The other three topics are all a direct attack on what made Switzerland good in the first place. No we don’t want even more cars in our cities and destruction of nature. 5 billion CHF just for construction costs, imagine how expensive it will be to maintain all this garbage for the next 50 years. I thought the federal government is out of money and needs a massive austerity program and tax increases just to stay alive? Bunch of two-faced liars.

    Also, eroding tenant laws is the last thing that our fucked housing market needs. The ivory tower in Bern is out of control.

20. Just here to say that the highway extension is already confirmed to cost at least 7.1B instead of 4.9B and will most likely surpass 10B by completion. Its an INSANE amount of money.

    Now, if it would actually solve something we could argue about it but it doesn’t.
    Mobility experts around the world, mobility experts in switzerland, road expansion projects around the world, as well as in switzerland, whatever study you look at we KNOW that the only solution to traffic is viable alternatives to driving.

    If you are a driver its literally AGAINST your interest to expand the roadway. You get 10 years of construction works just to now share the same traffic with more drivers which inevitably results in more traffic everywhere else.

    Please vote 🙂

21. I am also “no” for the 3 first initiatives.

    But I think the 4th (Healthcare financing changes) is not fairly represented in your text.

    It actually lowers the amount Cantons pay for inpatient care from 55% to 26.9%.

    It also makes Cantons pay 26.9% for outpatient care (it is 0% now).

    I would argue, that the measure itself is neither bad nor good. It has some advantages.

    But none of them matters until we enforce proper transparency and fair tariffs in the healthcare business.

22. This is what happens when people fall for populism at elections but have the instruments of direct democracy at their hands to then say no when they realize the populists put their own interests first.

23. what does the government have to do with voting? We’re voting on nearly everything, doesn’t matter how stupid, if it gets signatures it gets a referendum. That’s what direct democracy is?

    How unswiss of you to assume the government is setting up what to vote for rofl

24. 1. is Switzerland’s “just one more lane bro”.

25. If you look at the Bundesrat, which consists of 2x SVP, 2x FDP, 1x Mitte and 2x SP,  you can see the “bürgerliche” right is in the majority. And who do they generally make politics for? Rich people, not middle or lower class. So yes, in my opinion the government is definitely disconnected from the average citizen. The problem is that people keep electing politicians that act at their disadvantage. I’m not sure why that is.

26. Yeah on most stuff I will say no.

    The only thing that seemed reasonable is the subletting laws. It makes sense that it should be more enforced and that tenants should ask the permissions of the landlords to be able to let other people rent their house.

    But that’s probably it.

    Giving more rights to landlords is not beneficial at all in Switzerland. We have one of the lowest rate of home ownership with barely 30% or so that do own their house. All others have to rent, even so it’s already kind hard, thankfully we have a uncommon strong rights for tenants. By giving more rights to landlords, it’s just gonna drive the price of existing houses up.

    It’s dumb. You don’t just doom 70% of the population like that. Of course this law doesn’t “doom” it for now, but by voting for it, it would be the beginning.

    Even thought I am not directly concerned by it as a non-tenant, I will firmly vote no for it.

    As for the road expansion project, I am of the same opinion as OP. It seems like an america-style solution, to just expand and make road bigger and bigger. We have seen in the USA, in China that this wouldn’t fix the issue permanently. Putting this money to create incentives for better, more affordable public transport is a way better alternative.

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