There’s a lot of talk about Europe rearming, but I’m doubtful. Across much of Europe, there’s little real willingness among the population to defend their countries. Without that, political parties are unlikely to make significant defense investments.
https://x.com/Teoyaomiquu/status/1854099241561727173
by CapKharimwa
23 comments
They better. Trump is about to gut NATO
well if you have ignored every report of factories going 24/7 in europe the meetings that resulted in a coordination office in germany to cut trump out of the loop of nato then yes europe is doing nothing.
europe will either become strong or vanish there is no other choice america does no longer exist outside its borders…its time as superpower will soon be gone….every empire falls this is how they picked to do it history is full of it.
I am a huge fan of Nato but to be honest there are worse things than US leaving Nato.
The entire western European defence posture is based on Nato. Inherent in this is the assumption that US will play its full part if there is a crisis. If, as Trump has suggested, the US plays games and doesn’t turn up when the war starts, we are actually in a much worse place. You then have huge holes in your logistics , supplies, manpower and no way to plug them in time. Just as when Belgium surrendered without warning to Nazi Germany, completely fucking up France and UK at the time.
Either we can rely 100% on US turning up (as we all did for them in Afghanistan for instance) or we would be better off biting the bullet and establishing our own self contained defence pact. It will be expensive for sure , for both Western Europe and the US.
The down side for US is that we would then need to assume direct control of our entire supply chain. US defence contractors would be cut out over time. I’m not sure that the US public fully understand what that will mean for jobs there.
It also means that if the US ends up in a war with China or North Korea, its on its own. We might even supply both sides with materials if it suited us to.
Without Poland and Ukraine, I think Europe is screwed if NATO stops functioning.
Further increased Baltic, Romanian, Polish and Turkish defence cooperation on the horizon, that’ll be interesting to watch.
Hummm, I’m not sure population aren’t going to be willing to defend their country, the opinion may be skewed by how vocal most European are about bashing their country and leaders, and the absence of “visible patriotism” , but European are, I think, overall proud of their countries and values.
As an example for myself (french):
– do I hate my current government? Yup
– Do I regularly attend manifestations and protests ? Yes
– do I regularly talk online about how french current and previous government mismanaged tons of stuff, with great prejudice to many people and nation ? Yes
But If another nation attack French sovereign territory, will I be willing to my baguette to the front lines ? Yup ! (Well, there’s a line between “oh yeah I will risk my life” and actually puting my life in danger, and, having never been in that situation I’m not 100% sure I will have the ballz for it, but at least the willingness is here)
So, I think (hope) that many people are thinking like me.
That poll asked “fight for your country” not “defend your country”. There is a huge difference in perception because those in Western Europe only realistically view sending soldiers to some part of Middle East again as the option.
I wish that was the case, but honestly, I wouldn’t count on it.
It’s the end of the current world order. The president of the US is no longer the “leader of the free world”. Once more, the president of the US is an ignorant idiot. Say hello to your brave new, multipolar world. Americans seem to think they will keep all their privileges on the world stage – surprise, motherfuckers!
If recent history is even remotely a guide, europe will do absolutely nothing but bend over for new immigrants
NATO allies should spend the next 2 years repositioning themselves to produce their own military factories in Europe using only European technology. Then in the 2026 US elections they can get a better gauge of the political momentum to see if they need to expedite their efforts further. After all, now that Trump is the next President, Russia will feel empowered to attack the Baltics.
Trump has no issue with Nato. He just said they need to pay up more.
Time for every nation to develop and implement nukes. The world order is fucked. MAD is the only thing that can save you.
Not good for Ukraine. But I think Russia is also tired of fighting. Certainly a lot of deaths on their side. So I’m not seeing them fight for much extra new area, certainly the coming years.
Europe will rearm. The thing is Putin started a fucking war in Europe, we do take this seriously. Sure no citizen wants to go to war, but getting money for defense is not hard these days. The local defense industry is booming.
This would have happened regardless of Trump’s shortsighted isolationism or not. Putin and his war in Europe is the reason.
People seem to think Europe is one country. Newsflash… it ain’t.
Looking at statistics, the closer to the Russian border a country is, the more willing it is to fight and make huge defense investments.
All Baltic countries.
All nordic countries.
Poland
Romania
Turkey
Czech rep.
For an example.
Outside the US, the nordics will field the largest airforce of 5th gen (real 5th gen) fighters in the world, with deliveries of aprox 130 f35 (Norway 52, Finland 63, denmark 27)
And if you add swedens 100 Gripen, this is a substantial force.
Armor:
Aprox 800 Ifv’s for Norway, Sweden and Finland, mostly of the Cv90 variants.
Tanks: About 400 Leopards of various makes from 2a4 to expected deliveries of 2a7/2a8’s.
Spg’s: About 800 pieces.
Apc’s: aprox 3500.
The nordic countries also field over 500 navy-vessels of different sizes alone.
Including stealth corvettes, u-boats and heavy frigates.
And this is just the nordic countries and their aprox 30 million people, where the following is true:
Norway 90% of its population is ready to defend itself.
Finland 80%
Sweden I don’t have numbers from, but my guess is it’s around the same. Denmark too.
If you start adding Poland, Turkey, Romania and czech rep, the size of the combined forces are huge. Much larger than people actually think.
Tbh, the only advantage Russia has over the afformentioned countries are quantity of personell and nukes.
And production is up, and increasing.
Weapons production facilities is being built or profuction lines expanded all over the place.
The illusion that “Europe is defensless” is a damn joke. We don’t need the US to defend ourselves. We can do it ourselves. It’s just about mentality.
Well, they had better be ready….
The problem as always is that this costs money, but failing to defend the country costs very very much more.
It’s one of the first requirements of government, to keep the people safe. And to work together as a group for mutual defense.
Some parts of Europe will partially rearm, but lack of political unity and access to mineral/fossil fuel resources, full demilitarisation is unlikely. Finlandization is more likely.
Completely wrong. As seen in Ukraine, people will fight **to defend their** country.
If our country was invaded then considerable numbers of people would be willing to fight. However, people will generally not sign up for their countries army to be sent abroad to fight and die in a foreign field that nobody can find on a map, for reasons that the Politicians who sent them there cannot readily articulate to the public or the soldiers they sent there. This is why our militaries struggle to recruit.
Create a Home Guard that cannot be sent abroad and it won’t be short of people for local defence, which frees up the professional armies to fight abroad. Equip that home guard, and then if a country gets attacked then even if you can’t send the Home Guard abroad then you can raid their equipment stockpiles for the invaded country, who will have people willing to use it.
And hey presto, that or some variant of will be the west’s defence posture for the 21st century once the Politicians figure out the facts of life.
Also, during wartime people who think that they are going to swan off on holiday abroad on the back of their wealth while should at very minimum lose their citizenship, passport, right to vote any benefits entitlement etc for life without any possibility of appeal, because even the old aristocracy believed in *Noblesse Oblige* and sent their kids to fight. Nobody can be expected to fight for their countries ruling class if the ruling class sends their kids abroad while they get others killed with the clear intention of bringing their heirs and successors back to rule over the people who fought for the country afterwards.
The people willing to fight for their country should then be allowed to live comfortably from it afterwards, “to the victor goes the spoils” and all.
Nows your best chance to protect your country in Ukraine…
Norway threw 60 billion dollars at the army this year’s so yeah.. we are doing somthing.
Europe better step up to the plate in providing max assistance to Ukraine or let the a Russians roll into europe.
The US will be pulling out of assisting Ukraine now that we have a Putin puppet as president. It all falls on Europe etc. now.
Can’t blame Trump for this.
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