Darfur on the brink: How to stop a new bloodbath in western Sudan? • FRANCE 24 English

Darfur on the brink: How to stop a new bloodbath in western Sudan? • FRANCE 24 English

[Music] how did an argument in cartoon between rival generals drag Sudan into Civil War and push it back to the brink of a repeat of the DAR for genocide of two decades ago hasn’t happened yet but the stage is perhaps set in Al faser the West’s only City still in the hands of Junu leader Abdul fat aloran it’s besieged by the rapid support forces of Muhammad hamdan dagalo AKA hedi his RS the offshoot of the Arab janid militias that two decades ago slaughtered upwards of 200,000 masalit for and zagawa civilians after 2005 they were mayak koopa’s pledges to never again allow a repeat of the 21st Century’s first genocide fast forward to 2024 and the International Community has a chance to do that yet it’s gaze right now is elsewhere what with what’s going on in the Middle East in Ukraine what to do to get that attention on Sudan on darur and why after a year of fighting is there no end in sight for the people of Sudan today in the France 24 debate we’re asking about a darur that’s once again on the brink joining us is sudin activist Jafar Muhammed muhamud sinin uh thanks for being with us again you have family in El fasher you were saying yes thank you for having me we’ll talk we’ll talk about that in a moment pleased to welcome HUD Hayer founding director of risk Consultants Confluence ad advisory normally on the wrong side of the English Channel but today you’re with us thanks for being with us um Shaheen El Sharif co-founder and director of the ya Sudan advocacy group ya or ya how do you how do you say it Youth in Action Sudan Youth in Action Sudan thanks for joining us uh Mar laan is research director ameritus at France’s national scientific research center the CNR welcome to the show thank you uh your reactions on the # f24 debate before we go to our panel let’s first cross to CLA Nik program director for Doctors Without Borders msf’s Sudan operations thank you for speaking with us here on the France 24 debate um you provide for a swelling number of internally displaced around the city of Al faser most notably at the zamzam refugee camp that’s on the outskirts of the capital of North Darth for what’s the latest you can tell us well the situation is getting harder and harder because already the response is very poor compared to the needs so it’s the reality in Zam Zam Camp it’s the reality in oao in general in da for in general and in Sudan even so we were already very worried of the situation and now what we are hearing is of course more fighting is already happening so for two weeks now we have lots of of fighting around alas here more air strikes more fighting we receive already lots of of patient wed uh the past two weeks so 135 wed we received in the hospital and now we are seeing that the nutrition uh situation is completely dramatic already and with this situation we don’t even know how we’ll be able to continue uh to go the needs and to scale up because there is a need of scale up of the human human response now and in the past year with civilians fleeing the surrounding countrysides the population of the city has swelled yes exactly so we’ve seen a lot of of people coming from the south but now the North and the east as well so Zam Zam Camp has has been really expanding Alasia also there are lots of of gathering sites of lots of displaced all over the dafu they came to to Alasia and and no dafu in general so obviously the needs are even higher and more the people are displaced uh the the more vulnerable they are as well because they are coming with nothing and when they’re coming there there is no food there there is no Health proper Health Care even though we are trying our best it’s not enough uh uh water is a problem so basically we see more and more vulnerable population there one last question for you Cloud we’re showing there on the on on the screen a map how are you getting your Aid in is it coming in through uh uh Port Sudan on the or is it coming through neighboring Chad so we are we are bringing everything from Chad because the the the road from B Sudan is not uh visible uh in the past month so everything is coming from Chad and obviously with the current security situation it’s even harder rainy season is coming so it will be very difficult to deliver as much as we can and uh food of course is one of the main at the moment I want to thank you so much for being with us for for for that update CLA ni of msf now you heard uh uh the the humanitarian uh situation spelled out there by that humanitarian Aid Agency on Monday the United States ambassador to the UN issued this Stark warning uh about a the threat of a catastrophe in El faser the rsf is planning an imminent attack on Al faser as I’ve said before history is repeating itself in Dar for in the worst possible way and an attack on Al faser would be a disaster on top of a disaster it would put 500,000 internally displaced persons at risk people who traveled from across Dar for to seek Refuge now on Tuesday the Sudan Tribune reported that army war planes had launched air strike air strikes on uh rapid support forces the rsf positions within the the confines of the city of Al faser Jafar muhammadu s what is your what are your relatives what are your friends telling you from there well uh from what we’re hearing from the families and the relative the people uh who are uh uh caught up in this uh dilemma it situation is getting very wared situation is be uh becoming Beyond disaster uh the city has been besieged since uh late uh October uh to this day nothing is getting out nothing is coming out uh even uh those uh who are bringing humanitarian Aid like medical supplies from uh the places like a chat has been deliberately prevented by the rabish support forces don’t the you they waniz this bese to to to to make alfer people the people of alfer to surer the fasher is not the city of uh uh the the inhabitant of alash fasher entire Dar After Fall of Nala Zing G entire fled to alash to get you know protected from the the the the the Looting and killing and raping of robab support forces now for the meantime in the last two 3 weeks the situation has become very aggravated this because the this rabish support forces and their militia they constantly start you know bombarding and shelling the neighborhood of alfas the outskirt the neighborhood uh for no any uh apparent reason uh they just you know uh trying to make alfas people to surrender and the situation is uh what we are facing is it’s total catastrophe and this will lead to potential uh out you know all out war and we don’t know uh the consequence of that would be but there attention the attention now is peaceful surrender an option peaceful surrender that would be that not going to be the option because the fasher uh those who were uh uh sought help in Al fasher those who were forced to dis forc from their homes in places like aala like a Zing like uh places of uh the other towns were full as you know so where they have to run they have no solution and those forces who are now um protecting these civilians made up of uh saf made up of uh join forces made up of uh Sudan’s Armed Forces yes yeah Sudan Armed Forces protection forces which made of uh uh the the former Rebel group who uh sign juab be secary so those forces they are they are obled they are they are obliged to defend their people because what is happening it is just uh targeting uh people on the base of their ethnicity This Is War have nothing to do with the the so-call Democracy this is has nothing to do because the saf if they they problem with the saf and the saf it is uh the garison of the saf is stuck in the middle of of the town of you are talking about 2 million population so and instead they they have been warn they have been worn many times fasher is the only city that left in in alar for it’s the only humanitarian h f should be left but the aggression action that been taken by this aggressor which were finance and supported by the international uh region forces their aim is to inflict you know another episode of the worst genocide we we might about to witness in Al faser because this city is not going to be surrender uh regardless of what is going to happen so this situation is very is very Waring and instead of the International Community those you know International stakeholder instead of sending very strong message strong punitive message to the this militias and to the international backers because tomorrow we’re going we’re going to talk about the we’re going to talk about the international backers in a moment a lot to unpacked there 13 months on uh what started again as an argument between uh uh in the high Halls of power is it as you just heard it described now the the potential for an ethnic war or even some are even talking about uh Sudan becoming another Libya with uh each each group having their turf basically I think what Jaffer described that this is very much ethnically motivated is what we’ve seen throughout this past 13 months in many ways we’re seeing a continuation of uh the genocide that took place 20 years ago in 2003 to 2005 um but what we have in Al faser which makes it all the more dangerous is we have the Confluence of genocide and famine and msf um has been the only organization really brave enough to say that word famine um and recent Studies have shown that what is happening in in West D for and now also in different parts around Al fasid is also constitutes genocide both of these words genocide and famine are words the International Community doesn’t want to say so all of the words we’re hearing all the statements that we’re hearing from multiple countries multiple organizations the UN Saudi the US even the United Arab Emirates these are all just words because they’re not being biked up by action if we cannot Define what is happening we cannot really solicit the right kind of action and just explain this to us because so you had the fall of Omar Al Bashir you had a revolution you had I guess you could call it a counterrevolution what with uh Cs and uh the uh the Takeover by the military pushing aside uh the uh civilian leadership why is this turning into a Revival of a a genocide that was in the past well because that genocide was never resolved there was never any kind of recompense or addressing of the injustices of that time and this was very much fueled by that impunity the generals have learned that they can stage Crews they can stage genocides and effectively the world will not um take them to task and this is very much um is the is the consequence direct consequence of them getting away with effectively murder so what we’re seeing now is yes this is you know very much presenting as as a catastrophe but we must put this in the broader context of this is a counterrevolutionary war this war is partly waged on the citizens of Sudan to try to minimize Why didn’t it stay in cartoom is my question it started in cartoom if we remember and it very quickly spread to other parts of the the country because on the local level there are political Logics at play that are locally motivated very much driven by the settling of scores at the local level that also happen to use the war at the national level as a good cover so what we’re seeing is most of these genocidal attacks are actually between communities in this area driven by and motivated by the politics at the national level okay so we heard at the outset the strong words uh of the uh uh United States Ambassador uh to the UN warning of a potential for a disaster within a disaster at the other end of the spectrum the rsf’s Twitter feed a washed with propaganda images of uh jubilant soldiers uh communing with the local population uh in darur uh I guess shy El Sharif I’ll begin with a question to you about the messaging the way all of this is being explained to the uh International Community well um since the onset of the war um media has been the first weapon uh used uh in the War uh different propaganda especially by the rsf it’s become something that the Sudanese Community is used to uh to the fact to the point where the media is it effective well it’s effective in desentizing a lot of the people reading people keeping up with the Sudan War it’s it’s uh it’s a flood of misinformation that is uh really not targeted at uh sending quite a message but at losing the actual message in the middle of all the noise and that has been consistantly happening and being utilized by the rsf uh what is what has happened in janana months ago is exactly what the people currently entrapped in Al faser are worried about uh the question of peaceful surrender that you put forth um that is almost the situation that happened in jazer that that the people of faser now fear uh so there are no uh options being presented by the conflicting party here uh and as such um we need the International Community to move on on the request of the people who are about to be murdered do you agree with HUD again about the the how why it sort of graduated from a power struggle at the top into uh this potential for another ethnic conflict I completely agree with kud and I would add another level is that the part here are well aware of uh these different layers of the conflict they’re using uh they’re specifically using and motivating these uh lower levels of um of conflicts happening they’re uh recruiting People based on previous uh uh conflicts between tribes they’re instigating uh hate amongs the different regions in Sudan and this is not just the rsf it might have started there but now even the saf is uh using that all right and then of course there’s the spillover food insecurity hitting Sudanese refugees over the Border in Chad we can show you images that were filmed last week by Belgian television in adre that’s just over the border from Elina in West darur for the month of April we have to reduce the rationing because the wfb doesn’t have enough money this rationing is for 20 people we give them oil cereal beans and salt thank God we arrived safely and we’re now looking for food we don’t have jobs and we can’t buy anything this is all we have to survive so it’s pretty shocking in a way maravan because in that case they don’t even have to cross over uh through a war zone it’s just feeding refugees that are inside of Chad and yet they don’t have enough to to to feed them there why why is there so little help well this is really a mystery definitely uh because Chad is a a place where arms are coming weapons to feed the the war in theur and food can easily arrive I mean the French army is there close to the Border uh there planes and all the facilities that could help to to support the potion over there and the humanitarian bodies like msf they are there they are working there as much as they can but I’m very surprised that nobody crosses the Border in order to to stop the genocide itself among especially the community of the masalit within Western darur and and other way um in other places I mean in in darur all along the border I mean the border is just on paper I mean it doesn’t exist really and if the international Community would like to to cross and to solve the problem on the ground it could be easily done I was in darur first in 1985 there was already a food crisis there at the time and I came several times later in the 200000 when another crisis erupted so I know all these places and they are easily available I mean uh reachable uh by any place from from Chad of course not from in Sudan and uh I would assume I mean there are so many crisis recurring in in darur since the those 40 years that the problem which should be um settled is the gap between the Nile Valley and all surrounding provinces in Sudan I mean Sudan used to be the the largest country in Africa so there is this development gap which is political economical human Gap and this is the root cause of the the problems which is not targeted at all at the moment I mean we are trying to find a humanitarian solution but there’s no humanitarian solution I mean of course you can give some help in the people that um inside right now there’s an emergency which is feeding the people who are going hungry as you say risk of I mean I went there several times in your mediterian um actions with msf or others uh back as I said 40 years ago and all along so nothing is solved and the problem Remains Not only and and there was a political uh democratic transition in in Sudan which was not supported by the Western countries by but nobody so it failed and the armies are fighting not to take over the state but just to take over to take the the weals of Sudan how could they have supported more the revolution in in carum how could they have done it well this is a matter for politicians this is a matter for diplomats saying the West didn’t support it enough no no no no they didn’t take the problem tackle the problem on the ground they in Earnest the problem I mean this problem of Gap in economic U propose a marshal plan you’re saying or yeah yeah something like that so just a one last question on Monday There’s a presidential election in Chad and uh uh M el de’s Father uh he uh was no stranger to border tensions when there genocide was going on uh two decades ago what happens after voting day how does he the Chad strong man view what’s going on over the Border then well he’s strong but with some limits I mean he has a ground he is himself from a place which is at the border with daur tin which is split in two two te one in Dar one in in Chad and his his family which is a kind of royal family over there uh comes knows very well and part of the family has a CH Sudanese passport some others have a chattan passport so definitely he could have a say in what happens in darur because this is a a threat D was I mean the source of many threats in ch that was in Jama with the ministers and the government when the the attackers came from from at the time that was in 2006 or so up up to now M’s been trying to walk a tight rope try trying to uh keep channels open with both sides uh in in Sudan how’s he doing uh before I come to the point to to answer this uh concerning the neighboring chat I just want to go back to um the point that uh mentioned by uh uh Kut when she said uh this war it is uh it is um counter democracy war that had led to the localized level this is the the the false narrative uh or false diagnose and denial that has reach has led to the things to to reach to this level now how so how so I can tell you because this war was ignited because of the So-Cal the framework agreement that the FFC wish to impose on the other side the other side has refused and then they went they resorted to the the the the the the military option that military option was led by this uh former jit leader and when their plan of kud by force has failed and now the consequence has led to this now catastrophic War the people of Sudan until to this day nobody was forced or uh manipulated by other party to take an arm because we have seen genocide in algen we have seen uh theas killing and rape in places like U Medan all of this ethnic people were targeted based on their ethnicity either they accept this false narrative or either they will be punished now I’ll come to the the on this point before we go back to Chad go ahead you’re you’re you agree with that well I think let me clarify my point my point was there is a counterrevolutionary war happening at the national level regardless of what was happening in terms of the disagreement between the generals that is separate the point is that they are both fighting a war against the Sudanese people we have seen that targeting give me a second of the way that they have targeted pre pro democracy for this is where this is let me finish time this is where you and I are totally disagree on definition on definition of uh what you one second one we can disagree let me clarify my reolution jaar please you’ll have your chance go ahead no problem I think the issue is that we are seeing the targeting of doctors uh journalists people who uh who have created professional organizations that have a mandate neither of the generals do we have seen the targeting of resistance committees emergency response rooms and pro democracy actors lawyers Etc that is not by accident it is not just part of this what I was saying is that there are different political Logics that at play at the local level and at the national level and this war has allowed for those to come together I’m not saying that one exists necessarily outside of the other one both of these things can be true certainly what we’re seeing on the ground level is that these ethnic tensions are playing out in genocidal acts committed by the rsf but who but this this is a very large country with very differing political Dynamics at play but who started this EIC Dimension uh let me come back to the the definition of this uh what you call what you describe revolution revolution that has managed to push Al Bashir I and many thousand hundreds of thousand Sudanese has contributed in bringing that Revolution and that revolution has been derailed derailed by the derailed from the 11 of April of 2019 yes let’s make it clear on that one and the second point the ethnic dimension long before the latest military yeah long before that long before the Revolution was making clear for years go ahead and the Revolution were divided one side the majority they’re saying this revolution is dis because this revolution derail and the bless of FFC the one who recognize this a leader the one who recognize this uh and then they went on to sign and and and then we arve to this uh to this point now coming to the point of uh chat Chad is you know caught up in a in a very predict predictive situation Chad is caught up in a time where they they themselves were facing a lot of challenges and this the backer of this militias rabish support forces UAE has managed to trap chat so that the chat territory should be used to transfer all the military equipment to just aggravate it to just aggravate this war this is not my word this is the the the the there are many reports that been you know uh in New York Times in World Street journalist the involvement of UAE through chadian borders yeah so a chat after the election you know the the future of the regime of Muhammad rris Deb depending on the outcomes of war in Sudan the outcome of war in Sudan uh is is depending on how long this now this militia who now just is going you know uh crazy on uh civilian population how long will last you know uh will stand depend on that one so uh how how intertwined sh Sharif are the uh fates of Sudan and Chad right now again we’re at the eve of this this election that’s taking place on Monday well um Sudan for since the start of the conflict was surrounded by multiple countries on on uh years of Elections uh and elections are always tumultuous times for any country um for Chad I do agree uh for Chad for South Sudan a lot of pressure has been put on the leaders of these countries through their uh difficult election times uh and I couldn’t tell you more about what exactly is happening as we’re having multiple reports everything is still being uh investigated uh but uh I am certain that a lot of these countries will have a different response following their elections as the spillover is uh much greater than what any Financial benefit can come to their country yeah and that’s that’s part of it because again the lines are a bit uh blurred if you will between who’s supposed to be supporting who uh we’ve had mediation from the US and Saudi Arabia we have as you heard Jeff here saying uh these documented links between the United Arab Emirates and the uh rsf particularly when it pertains to things like gold mines but those traditional political fault lines getting scrambled with for instance Russia’s Vagner militias have also been backing H hedi uh uh but here you see uh Russia’s foreign Ministries tops Diplomat for the region he’s well was welcomed at the start of the week to Port Sudan by the Juna not by the rsf uh strongman abdal fatal barun’s a longtime alley of his Egyptian namesake abdal fatal CeCe here you see the pair together on February 29th of this year uh but alberon’s not picky when it comes to weapons shopping he’s bought drones from Tran uh as reported last week in Africa Confidential uh they’ve been operating since January uh from an Airbase north of Harum so the Iranians are supplying uh General Aban against uh the rsf which is aligned with Iran’s uh Ally these days Russia we don’t understand this just uh if I may say it’s actually um you know the regular business on the world stage uh everyone is pursuing their interest uh when we’re seeing uh Iran’s interest in Sudan regardless of the reports Iran is looking for another entrance to the Red Sea after UA’s big bits in the area so it’s more about than just making money and selling drones uh it’s much more this is more about spreading influence in in Africa uh we have seen taran’s ministers in Africa this year they’re trying to make new friends uh Sudan has been open for an open proxy war if you may uh for many countries right now and uh the Red Sea is currently the hottest spot in the world and Sudan is right there I think what what what the let me just ask Mar Le on this the the what what’s the most significant in all this the uae’s role Russia’s role Iran’s role well everyone is trying to to play his own interest on a very opportunistic way and I I agree that Iran is seizing an opportunity there is no ideology behind that I mean as elsewhere in in Africa it’s the the chance to to gain a port for for instance even for Russia on the Red Sea facilities everywhere and also to get access to the wealth of Sudan which is mainly gold mineral resources and also to the uh food in know of food security Investments I mean there are a lot of countries that are involved in the sudane economy in order to grasp the the wealth of the country along the Nile as well as in the in the countries in the provinces surrounding the the Nile Valley H it makes it sound like mission impossible for the International Community to put aside those business interests and try to actually save lives lives well the reality is that the war economy has taken route very quickly in Sudan and international actors are seizing the moment to get Sudanese assets whether that’s minerals uranium gold uh access to the Red Sea for fire sale prices and this is absolutely part of the calculation of many of these different actors to get involved in this war and you’re right that means it’s going to be infinitely harder to reconcile all of these different and often competing interests to get towards a resolution but this will be compounded even more if the war continues and we see the fragmentation particularly of the rsf into not just one group but several groups and potentially those um different militias and and and entities supporting the saf also break away that would make why would there be this fragmentation we’re already seeing signs of this so we’re already seeing warlordism take place within um areas controlled by the rsf we’re seeing some signs of breakaway from the top commanders of the rsf particularly those away from the DAR four base and they are recruiting on behalf of themselves not on behalf of the rsf and the rsf in many ways runs as a trans National criminal organization like a franchise and the reality is that the fragmentation of that is going to make it much much more difficult to achieve some kind of resolution so on that score Mar laavan this us Saudi uh bid at mediation are they the right people to try to mediate who should be doing it and how come the how come the Emirate madis don’t listen to the Saudis to me there is a top- down approach by those big Powers which doesn’t fit the reality on the ground because the actors are very independent from each other as was just said I mean there are a lot of of new groups that are emerging on a ethnic basis which is something very also regretable because it was not the case at the start I mean it was basically the Sudan is part of the sah and it faces the same threats as the s that is desertification climate change and these are the nomads that have no more hairs they can’t survive else um uh out of taking the land from the farmers this is the base and then it splits into local local rfts and Wars among different tribes and people Jafar Muhammed are you is your family witnessing this this fragmentation that’s being described this warlordism it is it is likely I can at this point I can agree with uh with with kud uh because the longer it takes this war the more became difficult to to to manage it because up uh you know the the the rapid support forces it has reached to the point of no return return either uh the other part or the the the the the state which are represented by the south and the the vast majority of Sudanese accept to find you know a peac meal solution for them or either they will just go and just uh destroy whatever that they found so the the likely scenario of yeah more war Lord them and the entire region became the H for you know the terrorists for uh you know the the uh the trafficking of you know the drugs and all that is really likely this is one thing and the second thing what has I I come back to the point uh of um of s leaning toward Iran I think this is uh result of what I call a complicity of the international stakeholder uh like uh the power great forces like uh Britain like U uh the US e and the Western Camp instead of uh uh of of uh this diagnosing what happened in Sudan uh through their lens they start you know uh diagnosing the things through the lens of of of of imatis who have really a project of you know like uh getting rid of the ancient Sudan to replace with their the their men and then from there they can you know continue to to achieve their objective so the International Community the big forces this is where they you know were hesitant until you know this uh sa and the other Camp they were pushed to go toward Iran and most likely they were not going to stop there they even go to approach uh the Russian the counter uh Western uh Camp it’s it’s really likely so either the International Community do you see do you see that happening sh Al Sharif I mean again it’s Egypt is the natural Ally of General aloron especially this Egyptian leader well Egypt is going through a rough time of its own as I said earlier a lot of countries surrounding Us in this particular moment are going through their own rough patches um so it’s quite difficult to see anyone putting weight behind uh any Ally uh of his inside Sudan it’s more about Regional uh influencers that is uh more problematic um cuz our viewers are confused to seeing the Egyptians and the Iranians supporting the same side in this yes again with Egypt again as I said this was a um a place of interest now Egypt’s um strategic uh alliance with the saf has been there for 100 for at least 100 years this is not an ally that could be uh replaced at all but we are there is still some hesitance in in the way uh they’re behaving uh as we’re seeing and for you who’s the natural mediator for this conflict currently um we’re who would be the best one sudanes people of course that’s is going to be the Sudanese people but I would have to to add that at this point um the International Community could play a very big role in in mediation if they put their weight on this uh Sudan currently is more of a geopolitical interest War um of um political uh interest rather than any national um threats or national security to anyone this is a place where the International Community could come together and who the International Community is vague we’re talking about the West mostly they have much power and no moves to be put in in in Sudan they have played the role of humanitarian uh Aid which they also haven’t um done enough in for for the International Community if they’re trying to put their weight on humanitarian Aid it’s very weak um so again um this is quite disappointing for from the international stage H haer do you agree that think the West should step up and play mediator role I think the West should Step Up um it’s made several commitments and it should honor them uh we have seen the West frankly flounder when it comes to upholding International humanitarian law in other context so it’s not a surprise that we’re not seeing for example uh calls for preventing the loss of life and atrocities and a genocide determination because that has ramifications for the West doing so elsewhere namely Gaza but I think what chahen is trying to get at is that there is leadership role here to be played to my mind it requires a broader range of actors it cannot just be the West the West has L lost a lot of traction in this part of the world we have seen other actors closer to home particularly in the Arab region gain a lot more momentum a lot more power a lot more influence over actors in Sudan and it’s a the sort of bringing together of those two Arenas that could produce a united front against this war we haven’t seen that heavy lift diplomacy yet particularly from western actors who say that they are interested in restoring San to democ democracy or at least towards a transition and the Arab Neighbors in the region who are very invested but are not invested in democracy there needs to be heavy lift diplomacy between those two to get at least a consensus that the war must end we don’t have that consensus yet which means we can’t get the leverage in place to force these two actors and the others that support them to put down their weapons until we do that there’s no point jumping straight into a mediation and we now have what five or six different mediation platforms all of which are failing because they’re not getting the consensus to end the war they’re not putting the leverage and incentive structures in place to be able to put that towards mediation you see the problem fr the problem this of this war resolving is not going to be that difficult but you know this to resolve this war unless the the things be diagnosed as it is you see instead of you know this language of you know bringing you know the the the the conflict in parties there is no two parties there is one party which is State either we like it or not led by the facto ruler uh Abdul fat aloran there is a militia that militia that who have no support at all you see today after this war over 80% of the Sudanese people they said they are standing behind the Army again we from the outside it’s seen as an argument between uh two two men in uniform no too many this is the this is the this is the wrong description that has been propagated through the interal media but reality on the ground is totally another different story let’s listen in that case to a man who didn’t wear uniform uh when he came to Paris for a sudan donor conference earlier this month the ousted former civilian prime minister Abdullah hamdok sat down with France 24s Mark Perman General HTI we met with him he agreed with us that we need to go through a political process we are yet to hear the same sentiments Echo byan so let me put it to you sh Al Sharif can you negotiate with either of these gentlemen uh to have a transition to uh uh the the Democracy to which HUD ha aspires I think that’s too early currently our main concern is lives that is the main concern we can’t be jumping and talking about uh um democratic transition and all of that if people are still dying we need to address that first Mark Leon well I see the good thing is that there is no Civil War in Sudan this is a competition between two uh groups that want to to plunder the country they have no project uh to for State Building or or any kind of of the sort so this should make things easier for the International Community to intervene but I think the opportunity has been missed and now things are are l i mean there are so many actors that are Emer judging on the ground in darur especially that I don’t know how the International Community could efficiently uh intervene they they have shown no interest in the Sudan plight up to now and even this International Conference on on humanitarian Aid is the proof that there is no political support to for the peace in Sudan I mean people are just trying to to get a final word on this is is is in other words which Shen was describing the first step is ensuring the humanitarian gate gets in is that the first step is that absolutely the first step because the reports are showing that millions of people are at risk of dying of famine this year what what the point about democracy is that that is generally where a lot of people want to go but we cannot lose sight of what the current priorities are that is safeguarding human life civilian protection and ensuring that people have enough to eat not just now but in the near future that means also safeguarding the next agricultural season and not just bringing trucks of food where we can as soon as possible that kind of holistic thinking is absolutely missing from the International Community and the aid industry at the moment and it requires being put front and center um and all sides need to be put in front of this not just um not just Aid actors but also local domestic groups H ha I want to thank you so much I want to thank as well uh uh for being with us Jafar mohammud sin shyen El Sharif Mar laan thank you for joining us here there’s more on our website france24.com [Music]

How did an argument in Khartoum between two rival generals drag Sudan into civil war and push it to the brink of a repeat of the Darfur genocide of two decades ago? It has not happened yet, but the stage is certainly set in El Fasher, the west’s only city still in the hands of junta leader Abdel Fattah al-Burhan but besieged by the Rapid Support Forces (RSF) of Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo – aka Hemedti.
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