The battle for Poland’s public media • FRANCE 24 English
[Music] in December Donald tusk was elected Poland’s prime minister a remarkable victory that ended eight years of populist rule by the peace party and supporters hoped it would reverse years of democratic backsliding here’s a BBC prime minister Donald Tusk promised major reforms to repair democracy in the country restoring the rule of law the independence of the courts and ending what he called the factory of lies on public media but his efforts so far have met Fierce resistance from the former governing party now in opposition which still has allies in key positions including the presidency and for a very very brief recap Tusk sacked management and leading journalist at State rad media his new Administration also took the rolling News Channel offer on another channel the evening Prime Time newscast was canceled for a night Tusk also put three of the companies in insolvency peace allies stage to sit in another Ally the president accuse the prime minister of Anarchy the battle of the air waves is focusing on state media channel TVP in February it’s year-on-year ratings plunge over 70% while a controversial right-wing Channel saw its viewership increased 30 times here’s Al jazer one of the biggest media beneficiaries of tvp’s nose diving numbers is a right-wing populist Channel TV Republica aligned with peace it emulates the style of Fox News in the US many peace appointed employees who were Ed from State media upon TK’s surval migrated to TV Republica and why does it matter Poland is a EU member with a large population it has a chance to improve a relations after nearly a decade of tense ties with with a block over its media rule of law and migration also if tus get a free pass and it could suggest double standards in Brussels let’s bring in our guest Alex chirak a professor of politics at the University of Sussex and Daniel Tillis the editor and chief of notes from Poland hello to you um Daniel I’d like to begin with you uh the irony here is that for Tusk to carry out his reforms to depoliticize these institutions he’s having to do some of the very things he criticized peace for yes this was um a a conundrum faced by the new government when they when they came into power that peace had become so entrenched um in public media and had um overhauled the bodies that oversee public media um um meaning that if the government wanted to act quickly then it had to do so in a way that was itself um uh challenged legally and a number of legal experts independent uh commentators um were very uncomfortable with the the manner in which um the the new T government took over public media even if they agreed that it was necessary to reform and change those institutions yeah Alex um no head of state regardless of where they fall in the political Spectrum if they’re the former president of the European Council should have their hands on the Press right I mean that’s the main lesson we’re learning here isn’t it is that that what you’ve got is is You’ replaced um one um very obviously partisan um Channel which was polish TV under law and Justice with a a somewhat more subtle um uh Channel and um you as as Daniel says you know essentially we what what we’ve got is that the government’s very comfortable with this position um they they they had promised to introduce a non-parties and media and but all that’s been put on the back burner because they’re very very comfortable they’ve got a media that doesn’t really criticize them um it’s it’s a a a pro government bias but a more subtle prover bias and they’re not really coming under any pressure internationally either from the um EU institutions the EU political establishment from the United States or indeed I mean it’s great you’re running this piece but from the Western International opinion forming media which has largely just kind of accepted their narrative um that what they’re doing is necessary to restore the rule of law and if they don’t come under any pressure well then they’re going to keep the the media as it is which is essentially somewhat more subtle and and softer version of the bias that we had under the previous administration Danel could you provide us some context I mean traditionally media in Poland tends to sort of be favorable with the government in power how is this different from previous occasions in Poland public media have always been under the influence of whichever government is in power but after 2015 when LA and Justice um came to came into office they politicized and corrupted public media to an unprecedented degree It produced whereas previously there had been subtle biases in in favor of whoever was in power uh under the peace uh government um public media especially um the public television channel TVP was used to produce very uh crude pro-government propaganda and also used to to attack the opposition um as Alex said a moment ago now with the trus government in power and new leadership installed in public media um this bias is more subtle they no longer produce the the kind of crude attacks on the opposition and and pro government propaganda that they did under peace but the bias is is absolutely still there and and really just as strong if if in a different way so statistics for example uh from an independent media monitoring organization showed that last last month in in May this is in the buildup to the European elections uh the main um uh political uh discussion program which is broadcast after the main news uh uh show every evening on the main channel of uh of TVP um 90% of its guests were members of politicians from the ruling Coalition only 10% from the opposition so there is absolutely a clear bias um in favor of the current um ruling Coalition under the T government yeah Alex um in December news anchor said his his company the public broadcaster no longer serving propaganda soup is that really off the menu what do you expect we have in store for us moving forward well as I said they’re under no pressure whatsoever um to uh to to reform the media in a way that produces a um a more nonpartisan message um uh they’re very very comfortable with the way that things are um the other thing to bear in mind I think is that I mean one of Law and Justice’s justifications for the way that they operated polish television was that if you look at the kind of media landscape as a whole um the privately owned media is is overwhelmingly um against the conservative right it’s in favor of the of the liberal left and their argument was always that you know they could produce they had to have this kind of strong counternarrative um and in a sense you know the the the the the current government can afford to have a a more subtle bias because it’s in the context of a of a media landscape in which you know they they overwhelmingly Dominate and and I think that’s more or less what we’ve gone back to I mean I think one of the great problems that law and Justice had was they didn’t really think about what was going to happen when they lost office and they lost control of of of the public media which was really the only way that they had any kind of counterbalance to the the overwhelming sort of liberal left slant um of of the private broadcasting media yeah and Professor to stay with you I mean there’s some Nuance here right there could be someone who on one hand politically agrees with Donald Tusk abhors the law and Justice party but also hates tusk’s uh tactics to try to uh re in public media well well that’s absolutely right um and you know there are I mean I think the thought experiment to do is um what would be the international reaction if law and justice had operated in the way that the Tusk government has operated so basically I mean what what law and Justice did whether you like it or not was when they reformed the media they they they changed the law essentially you know they they they passed a law they created a body the national media Council which appointed the um the the the management of State own media and this is the problem you know as Daniel said I mean in order to to to that body’s term of office runs until 2028 in order to to remove it they would have had to to have changed the law they can’t because the president as you showed is a ro and Justice supporter who can veto their legislation and they don’t have power to to overturn that so they used a get around they used company law and effectively they declared um the police state media um uh a bankrupt essentially put it into liquidation and appointed Liquidators who are the de facto managers of of of Polish TV and radio and the Polish press agency and the thought experiment I would ask you to do is what would be the reaction of um International institutions of of the western opinion forming media if this is how Law And Justice had behaved if they’ got rid of the previous management using a getar around um from using company law to place the company into liquidation um and I think I think we know what the reaction would be and therefore I think that’s why a lot of people um including people who are supporters of the government and critics of Law and Justice um accuse the in the current government of double standard and and they’ve kind of got a point really right Daniel real quick we’re running out of time uh let’s continue the thought experiment if this leads to a more pluralistic uh objective media Outlets do the uh ends justify the means well I mean yeah there there are two questions here the the the first question is whether we can accept the questionable um legality of the initial takeover um of public media by tusk’s government in December if it results in a um in a more pluralistic and independent and neutral public broadcaster but the second question is what we’re actually seeing seeing happen which is precisely not a a more pluralistic independent neutral public broadcaster um so I imagine many people would be would have been willing to accept some of the the legally questionable actions at the start if it had resulted in in a genuine um Public Service Media but that’s simply simply not the case so um and as anex said the government is not facing any pressure from its supporters domestically but sorry running out of time sorry to cut you off Daniel I want to thank you Daniel Tillis from notes from Poland also joining us on the line was Professor Alex churak um that brings us to our quote of the week it comes from a man who spent his career fighting for press Freedom the late great Kristoff delir he passed away last week at age 23 the Secretary General of reporters Without Borders said his organ organization calls on the European commission not to betray its own values and to continue the fight by adopting sanctions we want to be a thorn in the side of the Polish authorities constantly pressing them to respect media Freedom he said that on a visit to Warsaw in 2017 7 years all despite the swing in power his words remain relevant today that’s it for this edition of scoop thank you please stay tuned to France 24 [Music]
Poland’s new pro-EU government has taken sweeping steps to reform the country’s public media outlets. It claims the actions are necessary to restore press independence after eight years of populist rule. But the situation may be more complicated. Until a new independent press is created, the government is benefiting from favourable coverage, much like the previous administration. We speak to journalist Daniel Tilles, editor-in-chief of the news website Notes from Poland, as well as professor and author Aleks Szczerbiak from Sussex University.
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9 comments
This debate is out of date today… As we know there is a ongoing War with MOSKOVITS! ../ so, postpone this after the War… Ok!?
F globalist Tusk!
Go populism !
F globalism !
There is plenty of right wing social media and various Youtube channels in Poland. As for public mass media- people got sick and tired of having only single narrative hardline, so even if this takeover was made in a way that many citizens do not entirely approve Poland is actually in a process involving moving towards a different model of mass media diversity- made of social media platform based mass media. Actually Polish people on their own crowd-fudn for creation of many channels of their interest. Lots of it has little to do with politics, what also shows how tired society became with one-sided mainstream narrative focusing on conflict between two largest Polish parties. New formula of mass media feels sterile and cold. Problem with it is… it is dull. Really. But Polish people do not expect much more form now than getting some rest from politics. Especially given that we have one elections after another. Soon Presidential Elections are coming and people are really getting exhausted with never- ending political campaign. As for criticism- we have plenty of it. People watch debates of Polish Parliment on-line. Our politicians do argue across all social media platforms. Everyone gets to comment on everything. There is no serious threat to freedom of speech now in Poland or to freedom of the press. Everyone can come to Poland and see for himself. We have people across entire political spectrum expressing their views freely. Even European Elections results show that Polish people voted and have chosen people across entire political spectrum, not excluding even controversial figures such as Daniel Obajtek or Grzegorz Braun for example. Poland is very strongly divided bewteen two main parties now and it really does show in mass media but current mass media consumption in Poland nowadays focuses on social media, not on public mass media. And to a great extent this is a result of a free choice of Polish citizens. We Polish people choose to consume mass media this way and even actually debate these days whether or not we all want to spend our tax money in any form to fundarise any public mass media.
In short- there is no threat to freedom of expression or freedom of speech or freedom of the press in Poland. Poland has very long tradition of unrestricted self-expression. What maybe makes our language in both daily life and politics a bit brutal. But this is what matters to us as nation- we like to speek our minds freely. So no, no tragedy going on in our public mass media. Simply public mass media in Poland has always been more friendly to the currently ruling party, so it's nothing more than one political party arguing with access to it with another political party. Mean while we got tired with this tug of war between the same two parties over the years, so as a society we lost interest in state owned content in public mass media and moved to social media. And this is where we have and create diverse content that we want to see. And frankly Poland has more freedom there than for eample US itself has snce Polish people do not care especially about Western model of political correctness. We can freely argue there all we want on anything we only want. Or all journalists and politicans have their own active social media accounts so we have with them even faster exchanges of informations that journalists from public media have. These days it's common in Poland to have public discussion with state officials in social media first and only later on to hear about it on public tv or in public radio. And in public mass emdia we would actually value more cultural and sport events than politics focused content but political parties want to impose the model of using public mass maedia for their marketing purposes, so it's their problem much more than the problems of citizens or journalists. Journalism in social media is actually doing really well.
The media is totally dominated by one side now, just like the last time Tusk was in power. This is democratic according to Eu, it was not while there were 60/40% shares of media between left and right leaning groups. It is just a small glimpse in the delusions EU is in.
It's Poland, so, public or not, they'll still be Homophobic Holocaust-deniers!
Sigismund only trusted SVT
Tusk destroys Poland every day