‘Complete nonsense!’ | Bill Browder SLAMS Nigel Farage for justifying Putin’s invasion of Ukraine

‘Complete nonsense!’ | Bill Browder SLAMS Nigel Farage for justifying Putin’s invasion of Ukraine

in in my opinion there they show total ignorance of what’s really going on in Russia the idea that um somehow the the West provoked Putin into this murderous war of aggression is just complete nonsense the uh the idea that NATO is a provocative thing it just it just doesn’t ring true NATO is a defense organization it’s kind of like it’s kind of like saying that um uh you live in a bad neighborhood and you decide you want to put bars up on your window and you get the guy to come and measure the bars and then the crooks come and break into your house before you put the bars on the window um that’s that’s what uh that’s what that that’s what uh that’s what is going on here but but most importantly the NATO has nothing to do with this this uh uh this Invasion NATO is is a total uh you know kind of red herring um if NATO really was then then after Finland and and Sweden join NATO why isn’t Putin at war with them I find it uh very ignorant statement that he made and soill why why do you think najo farage has has made these comments now do you think this is a deeply held view that he has do you think he’s done it as a provoc provocation as part of the election campaign well it certainly got him a lot of attention in a you know in a in a in an election where labor is leading you know everybody in in Leaps and Bounds um you know the headlines were about him uh today um that that’s the only reason I can think of I was actually on it TV show on GB news um talking about my campaign to get Justice for my murdered lawyer Sergey magnitsky and talking about Putin and he was the most sympathetic guy in the world on that show and so um if he if if he does have deeply held belief beliefs um it wasn’t he didn’t show them on that show and so oh that’s interesting and when did you do that show I it must have been about a year ago maybe a year and a half ago and he showed no signs of of great sympathy for for Putin he had huge sympathy for me and for my my mission and for um for all the the terrible things that we’ve suffered at the hands of Putin and so I find it a little odd and and disconcerting that that he’s changed his tone towards Putin now and and as you say perhaps it’s um opportunistic from an election point of view although it does seem odd because that doesn’t seem where the British public are um so Tony Brenton let’s bring you into the conversation you’re a former British ambassador to Russia how will these comments be taken in an international point of view because Nigel farz why while he is not an elected Member of Parliament he’s still a very influential voice in Britain and in this election um well let me just start off in a slightly different place if I may I have a rather different picture of the validity of farage’s comments than than bill has Bill must know this um what farage actually said was and he’s right Putin was wrong to launch the war and we all agree it’s an illegal War it’s a bad War it’s been appallingly done and all of that what farage then went on to say was that um the wests moved towards including Ukraine in NATO was part of what provoked Putin to do it and I’m afraid he’s absolutely right on that I was actually in Russia as the British Ambassador um in 2008 um when the decision by a NATO Summit in buchar to push Ukraine towards towards membership was taken I spoke to senior Russians at the time and they were appalled and horrified now my reporting I can’t say but one document which has hit the public uh domain was my colleague Bill Burns who at the time was the US ambassador in Moscow produced a report saying every Russian they know from the white the cleanest liberal to the most knuckle dragging inhabitants of Putin’s Kremlin hated and were appalled by and felt threatened by the idea of Ukraine joining NATO so on that point farage I’m afraid is right and what is interesting to me is the intensity of um a lot of people to dismiss this because it adds to a picture of Putin which as a as basically a demon as a man who’s determined to expand Russia and Crush everything under his feet which is which is which is just wrong the man is rational he has the support I’m afraid of most of the Russian people as does his war and we need to bear that in mind as we handle Putin going forward Bill do you want to come back on that I I completely and absolutely disagree with that um uh pu Putin uh launches launched this war for a very different reason Putin is a man who um is desperate to stay in power he understands that if he ever lose power um he would go to jail lose his money and die and so he he’s always very sensitive to public opinion and and if it starts to become something where he’s not sort of solidly in place and I should point out that Russia is not a democracy but if if general public opinion is kind of against him um then he’s got to do something about it and every time if you there there’s a there’s a very good chart which shows the uh public approval ratings of Putin and in 2008 uh around the time of the global financial crisis um his approval ratings weren’t high and he went into Georgia he invaded Georgia and his approval ratings went way way up and he was doing well for for a period of time and um and then around 20 4 his approval ratings were really starting to flag and so he took Crimea and they shot right up and then um going going through covid and all this kind of stuff his approval ratings again were very low and um and then he went in on a fullscale invasion of Ukraine I I I know and all Lexi nalni knew Gary caspero male hovsky these are all members of the Russian opposition all understand that Putin’s war in Ukraine is purely a war to to get everybody angry at a foreign enemy to stay in power it’s makavelli 101 this whole idea that NATO provoked this is just a a red herring it has nothing to do with reality um sure they might have been upset about NATO they’re upset about a lot of different things um but just to finish off we made a commitment a very long time ago and I say we the United Kingdom and the United States made a commitment um to Ukraine that if they gave up their nuclear weapons that we would protect their territorial Integrity they gave up their nuclear weapons and of course Russia was part of that agreement as well Russia has now challenged their territorial integrity and it’s our duty it’s our absolute duty to Ukraine to do everything possible to protect them I certainly agree with that last Point yes we must back the ukrainians to the hill so there’s no question there um nevertheless the way the war is now going we may find ourselves I’m afraid in a in a negotiation with Putin we have to face that reality and it does not help as we approach that negotiation to view the man as anything other than what he really is and what he really is is the leader of a Russia which roughly speaking is United around him is determined to win its war and with whom therefore we may eventually I’m afraid have to make some compromises to bring that war to an end okay well look saton just on that that point I mean just to pick up on what sail said I mean if the Russian people don’t like President Putin they haven’t really got many Avenues to express that have you have I mean let’s be honest about that I mean he’s not there’s not like a grateful public who have this natural love and affection if anybody dissents they are cracked down on pretty hard in in in in Russia and then the second point I guess is you’re making a point about further down the track about a negotiation and there are people who I’ve spoken to before who have said that we might end up in that position but that’s not where the kind of all most of the Allies are at the moment the the conversation diplomatic circles from governments and foreign ministers across the world is what can we do to shore up Ukraine Ukraine has got to win the war in fact you know people are very nervous about you know president Trump coming in and and and maybe if he does come in we might be down your scenario of of negotiation but negotiation is not where the international political mood is right now certainly from Western allies is it no I I mean the two points there on your first point about Russian public opinion you’re absolutely right that Russia has become much more repressive and autocratic partly as a result of this war nevertheless there are one or two polling organizations still functioning there which offer something which we like to think approximates to the truth and you you get the mood you you talk to people I know a lot of people who come in and out of Russia and the Russians whatever else they may be and that I don’t think they’re entirely happy I think there’s a certain brittleness about Russian public opinion at the moment I’m sure all the mothers who are losing their son to finish the point Russians are a patriotic people as we regularly see in their history they’re in a war and being in a war they are determined that their country will win and that I mean you may not like it we may not like it but that’s an important political fact going forward it’s a reason why Putin has survived what was an imminently stupid and destructive War has nevertheless survived and a huge number of deaths because the Russians rally around their leaders times of national crisis now one the question negotiation yes you’re right that for the moment we maintain pressure for in effect zelinsky’s aims which are complete defeat complete Return of the Ukraine’s National lands and um war crimes trials and all of that the signs are this may change are that we are not going to get there we’re in for an extended period of continuing destruction of continuing death and moreover on the edge of a face to face confrontation between nuclear poers that’s a dangerous uncomfortable and destructive place to be now we sustain it for the moment because as you say we have hopes that the arrival of new Western weapons will make a difference we’ve had those hopes before and they’ve never been fulfilled okay it may be true this time but if they are not fulfilled then the time will surely come when the level of Destruction and the level of danger reaches the point where it becomes better to talk okay look um so bill I mean that that that’s an interesting point the saton has raised I mean many people talk I mean Max Hastings wrote a piece a while ago um I’ll double check if it it was him but you know people have talked at some point The Killing and the fighting and the destruction may just be so exhausting that they may have to be I think it’s been described as a sord of Deal or some kind of talking and negotiation do you accept that that point may come I don’t think it’s ever going to come for a very simple reason that um Putin can’t compromise so for him this war is an exit existential War for his own existence if for any reason he comes to the table and makes a compromise then he looks weak and the Russian people will get rid of him and if they get rid of him they’ll kill him and so for Putin he has to be at this war and look at that they they’ve lost half a million young men already which is just an enormous am amount of soldiers I mean the Soviets only lost 15,000 in 10 years in Afghanistan they’ve lost 500,000 Putin can’t give up and on the on the Ukrainian side nor can they we see what happens when the Russians take over Ukrainian territory in bcha and irpin all the women are raped all the men are are tortured and all the children are kidnapped and so neither side can give up and so it’s a fantasy to think that there’s going to be some type of compromise and peace treaty because neither side can give up because it’s too important for both sides and so this is going to carry on and for to have a a potential political leader here talking about it being our fault um that it’s all about NATO um that there’s some type of negotiation to be had all that does is feed into Putin’s narrative and pu this is exactly Putin’s what he’s been repeating over and over again it doesn’t help us at all and and as you said it’s completely out of touch with British public opinion there’s no nobody in the conservatives or labor or liberal Democrats that that have any kind of sympathy to Putin it’s just doesn’t make any sense for him to be doing that from a electoral standpoint and just a final point to you on that saton I mean kind of that’s my original question to you um what do you think farage’s comments how do you think they’ll be received in international diplomatic circles well I me very similar to how well depends how International you’re going within the West within the Coalition who are backing Ukraine at the moment they will of course been be be reprehended totally more widely than that I think you will find a certain amount of sympathy in the famous Global South we as we now call it for the observation that it was our in intent to expand na and to include Ukraine had quite a lot to do with creating the situation which led to the war and that doesn’t detract from and I hope Bill accepts this farage said yesterday in his comments I mean the latter part have been has received more attention but he said very clearly that Putin is responsible for the war that’s true we all know it’s true nobody’s questioning that okay a very interesting thought-provoking conversation my huge thanks to sbil Browder and to Sir Tony Brenton thank you very much for your time gentlemen thanks so much and good to see you again bill you too we should get together sometime I hope so yeah cheers bye bye fantastic thank you so much that was really excellent thank you bye

“He had huge sympathy for me and for my mission and…all the terrible things we’ve suffered at the hands of Putin.”

Bill Browder says Nigel Farage is “opportunistic” in changing his tone towards Putin for the election.

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