Putin on the brink as Ukraine membership ‘irreversible’ | Jim Townsend

Putin on the brink as Ukraine membership ‘irreversible’ | Jim Townsend

if Putin thinks that he’s going to uh wait us out he’s got to be proven wrong and that’s going to be up to us we Hing talks about Ukraine’s path to NATO’s membership being irreversible do you see that being true yes I do I know that the uh wording uh for in the communic with the word IR uh irreversible was a up until the last minute a big uh big debate uh and it was considered a victory I think by the administration that the Nations agreed with irreversible that’s a very strong word in a communic I spent years uh doing NATO communic and negotiating them uh around the big NATO table and uh I can tell you with that kind of word given the situation uh about Ukraine membership in NATO that that was hard fought and um and so I don’t see it in fact uh not coming true I think this is irreversible um I think this means that it’s going to happen when it’s going to happen and the conditions and the situation about when that will happen uh we don’t know uh but I think it’s a strong word and it’s something that I think sends the right signal that uh NATO is not going to step back at some time NATO’s not going to walk backwards on his commitment that this is irreversible and NATO is saying that uh and that’s uh that’s an important word I know that if you’re in Ukraine and you’re being rocketed uh every night um uh having a great word like irreversible might not uh make you real happy uh and I understand that but I will say that uh in the world of NATO and Ukraine membership in NATO that’s a great success getting that word in and uh and and because with that word comes a commitment that all the nations have made uh and that commitment is is not going to be something that as I said will will be walked back this is something that is is solid and uh along with that that wording uh there’s going to be assistance coming to Ukraine that’s more tangible that you can touch uh Cons with uh financing and weaponry and that type of thing we heard Biden he announced his pledge of air defenses to Ukraine what impact will this have on Ukraine well um it’s I think we’re all happy to hear that he’s pledged to provide I think four or five Patriot units uh to to Ukraine uh which is which is fine which is great they need 25 more 50 more uh that’s a drop in a bucket uh so it will you know I’m happy with anything that can go there if we can prevent a missile attack like we saw against that uh Children’s Cancer uh Hospital uh if there had been a patriot unit there maybe that missile wouldn’t have gotten through so so I think we have to be grateful for everything that comes there but we can’t fool ourselves that that’s going to fix the problem whether it’s the United States with Patriot or France and Italy with s t or whatever it might be in terms of air defense systems uh Ukraine needs a lot uh and uh this isn’t something that uh should lose its priority it’s always going to be there as a top need for Ukraine uh and the more that can be provided the better is it too little too late well it’s too little uh it’s not too late except for that poor hospital that got hit uh but it is too little uh but it’s better than nothing you could say that and we’ve just have to keep keep moving forward I I will say this though you know Patriot missile systems uh are in short supply in the US military also not many other allies have Patriot the Dutch have it uh the Spanish I think have one unit uh there’s not many who have it there’s some European systems so it’s not like we have a big uh Warehouse we can open up and flood the market with uh with the Patriot system so um so I I I tip my hat to the Pentagon for releasing its tight hold on at least four or five additional ones uh but uh we need to start uh ramping up production of patriot so that we can meet uh not just Ukrainian needs but to refill our own Arsenal too conversely we are seeing signs of shortages in terms of not only manpow but Weaponry in Russia what’s your current assessment well Russia is in a different situation in a lot of ways particularly when it comes to Manpower there are a lot more Russians than there are ukrainians uh the Russians have a tendency to uh not care so much about the casualty rate that they have which is very high their forces that they have now drafted and and uh brought into the uh Russian military are not as well trained um still they still they are conscripts given a gun and and sent to the front line there criminals coming out of jails there’s they’re also coming from other parts of the world uh I mean it’s a strange grab bag of of forces that the Russians have put together and they go through them very quickly but they they’re willing to do that uh and Ukraine pays the price because that just means that they’re under a constant attack by this infantry uh the Weaponry that they have uh a lot of it they’ve been pulling out of deep storage from the Cold War days they are manufacturing though uh tanks and other kinds of weapons using uh bits and pieces that they’re getting from the Chinese and from others so it’s not like the sanctions have have choked off uh provision of uh of weapons and and components uh it’s probably slowed it and made it expensive but it seems to be getting through so they are manufacturing but not at a huge scale but eventually they will so I think that we have something to worry about uh maybe in a year or two uh when they reach reach a higher scale of manufacturer and we begin to see you new vehicles uh new drones uh updated more modern equipment uh that’ll be a time when we’re going to need to worry about that and we have to make sure Ukraine can handle that uh that kind of onslaught of of newly manufactured equipment they’re not there yet uh but there will be a time when they’ll they’ll they it’ll be there Joe Biden said that NATO was stronger than we’ve ever been what do you make of that would you agree well I think in a in a lot of ways yes that’s true uh we have two uh new members who bring a lot of capability intellectual as well as military Sweden and Finland coming into the alliance and that has certainly made uh made us stronger uh in that in that regard it also brought in that land mass too uh which is important if we’re going to have to have a fight up there we need to have uh ability to maneuver and that’ll be that’ll be something welcomed um more nations are spending the 2% uh and this is something that brings strength to Nato too that money is got to be used to buy the right equipment it’s got to be used to buy the equipment that NATO says it needs um it can’t be frittered away uh this is something that is urgent so NATO is stronger and will get stronger as that money is then put towards uh items that are then delivered I mean it’s you know there’s a lag between getting money and buying something and when you actually have it in your hands so we’ve still you know there’s still more time needed to get stronger than we are now uh there are nine Nations that have not reached the 2% and I’m hoping that we see uh those Nations pretty quickly um do what everyone else is doing including the UK uh the new labor government uh I’m I’m I think we’ve all looked forward to meeting our colleagues from the UK uh the new side and we hope to hear a great story from them about UK defense spend and and improvements in the UK military I I I know I shouldn’t be talking about what’s happening in the UK and the domestic political scene that belongs exclusively to them but as an outside Observer I just that’s what I’m hoping to see uh and uh so yes I think the section and saying that uh we’re stronger than we’ve we’ve ever been uh I think that’s true uh in a lot of those areas but but but it’s we shouldn’t get complacent because we have a lot more work uh to do to get stronger than we are now which is really where we need to be as now cided to the us we obviously have the US elections coming up if Donald Trump does win the election what does this mean for um the US’s relationship with NATO NATO allies but also what impact might this have on Biden’s pledges that he’s made uh well I think that um you know we don’t know if Trump’s going to be elected or not uh if he is uh he he’s going to find a different NATO uh than he saw four years ago like the SE said he’s going to see find a stronger NATO with more Nations spending the 2% Etc he also will see a new Secretary General uh Mark Ruta from the Netherlands who he knows and who he had a good relationship with when he was the prime minister of the Netherlands so I think um I think that’s going to uh maybe have an impact on the way Trump looks on NATO so I’m I I think we’re going to just have to wait and see we really don’t know I don’t think Trump knows um but but we’ll have to see what his relationship with Putin is going to be that’s really important uh you know if if if Putin wants him to uh push nato in a direction and he agrees to do that then that’s something that’s going to impact NATO but we just don’t know because we don’t know what his what his relationship with Putin will bring about so we don’t we don’t know that in terms of Biden um if he is reelected um I think we can be assured that there’ll continue to be assistance packages that the administration will develop uh we don’t know the makeup of the US Congress if there is a uh uh the House of Representatives filled with uh you know Trump trumpists you know in terms of Congress people uh and they are uh a dead set against Ukraine and Assistance or whatever craziness they might bring with them then it’ll be difficult for Biden uh to to keep assistance package is going because the House of Representatives gets to make the call so we’ll have to see what happens in those elections and you’re good to raise that question because it’s not just the election of the president uh that’s going to matter in November it’s also what the Congress will look like so we’ll just have to see uh you know when we get to November what it what it looks like if you could put yourself inside Putin’s brain how would you think he’s feeling right now what do you think might be his next military um strategic steps can you gauge anything from what you’re seeing right now well if I find myself in Putin’s head I would shoot myself uh I am sure it’s such a small space I would not be able to even move around so it I would be claustrophobic to begin with well I I think with Putin um certainly he’s waiting for the American election if Trump is elected uh he’s going to be just very happy about that uh and uh and then his actions will be you know probably shaped by the relationship he has with with Trump uh if uh the House of Representatives goes Republican uh he’s probably Savvy enough to know that that would be in his favor too so he’s probably hoping that the election uh in November is going to bring him colleagues uh in Washington and and that he will take advantage of that if it’s Biden’s team that comes back in it’ll be it’ll be different so in terms of the way he’s thinking uh I think he will continue to think that he can wait out uh uh Europe and the United States that we will get fatigue um having to always provide assistance to Ukraine uh I think he will bite his time and build up his forces and take advantage of his uh of his leverage in terms of Manpower uh and in terms of weaponry and and that type of thing uh and so that’s what he’s going to do which means we have to continue to provide as much as we can to Ukraine the f-16s are going to arrive they’re going to need missiles uh Munitions of all types uh perhaps even things like jet fuel and uh and all kinds of things that come with having a modern Air Force so they’re going to need to have assistance continuing so they can be effective uh and and uh if Putin thinks that he’s going to uh wait us out he’s got to be proven wrong and that’s going to be up to us so I think that’s uh he’s hoping that I’m wrong and he’s right and we’ll see if if that’s the case

“This is irreversible. This means it’s going to happen. Nato isn’t going to step back, it’s not going backwards on its commitment to Ukraine.”

Live at the NATO Summit, Times Radio speaks to Jim Townsend about Ukraine’s membership to Nato.

📻 Listen to Times Radio – https://www.thetimes.co.uk/radio

📍 Subscribe to our channel – http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTjDhFuGXlhx9Us0gq0VK2w?sub_confirmation=1

🗞 Subscribe to The Times https://www.thetimes.co.uk/subscribe/radio-3for3/

📲 Get the free Times Radio app https://www.thetimes.co.uk/radio/how-to-listen-to-times-radio/app