The logic of El Salvador: If you put all young uneducated men in prison you get less violence.
In an ironic twist many young uneducated men in the USA support this measure. They think that they would not be put in prison because “they have done nothing wrong”.
too bad for the few “innocent ones” but the amount of lives saved over idk the next 10-20 years will be higher than the amount of innocent locked up. Wait till they start releasing people because of human rights and see the homicide rate skyrocket again. That society needs a healthy break from gangs infecting the youth with voilence.
This is kind of an interesting philosophical question. At what point does the risk of imprisoning innocents outweigh the risk of innocents getting hurt by criminals?
How come it was plummeting for 4 years prior to this policy?
Since the 2015 peak, 90%+ of the crime reduction happened before implementing new policies.
That’s is what happens when you fight crime the right way and put criminals in jail 🙂
If he really lets anyone rot in Jail without a chance of “redeeming” themselves ( guilty or not ) then yea… 🤔 That for sure could be considered a bit of a problem 🤨 Perhaps he’ll start a tiered rehabilitation program starting with those that cannot be tied to a crime?
At the cost of innocent people not being murdered and extorted.
What I think would be more interesting than a comparison with the US is to have a second line showing the prison population.
I can still see the value in having some comparison, so something like showing LatAm average homicides and prison populations would help demonstrate the dramatic swings going on here.
Weird to me how many people are against a country that was effectively the murder capital of the world trying to organize itself.
I’d much rather see an innocent in jail than 10 innocents in the graveyard.
And people act all all males are gonna be locked up forever LOL the criminals are gonna serve sentences based on accusations. Eventually they’ll be free and reintegrated into a society that is no longer rules by gangs.
And Americans love to talk without understanding the local culture. The innocents in jail are but a very small fraction. You don’t tattoo the name of a gang in your neck just to be a family man doing honest work. Not in El Salvador.
I saw this stat the other day where El Salvador had the smallest amount of folks in prison but the most per 1000 people
It’s worth it if it’s prolongued in time, eventually the innocents incarcerated per year will be very low and the gangs won’t kill anyone because they won’t exist.
El Salvador’s problem was very unique in that most crime was conducted by one gang and they were easily identifiable. I don’t think that’s the case for 99% of other countries.
They do compare El Salvador criminals to Norwegian criminals for argument’s sake so that take at least is a bit off.
The rest of the video does at least give a summary of what’s going on.
Shouldn’t human rights activists be concerned with…I don’t know, HUMANS GETTING MURDERED?
Holy shit! That’s amazing
You don’t get ms18 tattoos by an accident these people saying anything against how el Salvador has fixed it can foff
“but at what cost” The cost of prisons obviously.
How many innocents do you really think are being locked up? They’re all covered from head to toe in gang tattoos lol.
The government implemented a massive anti gang program, where they basically arrested everyone they could find who had gang tattoos. As the gang members had all clearly identified themselves with these tattoos, it turned out to be a highly effective way of completely shutting down the gangs.
Let’s not forget MS-13 originated in the United States in California slums to protect Salvadoran people from violence before becoming a traditional gang, and the US took many MS-13 gang members from it’s prisons and flew them to El Salvador without warning the government there; allowing those gang members to run rampant and cause a lot of the violence and despair historically.
It may when things get really bad to err on the side of caution and potentially imprison an innocent person than risk the loss of many innocent lives.
Just to give this more context, the murder rate per 100 000 of the united states is also insanely high with 6-7 homicides per 100 000.
The western european countrys have all below 1 homicide per 100 000. The european average is 2.2 and the world average is 5.8.
Sensitivity v. Specificity.
You can imprison 100% of the population, that would make you perfectly efficient to imprison criminals.
They went for the gangs, and it wasn’t hard as they were all stupid enough to tattoo their membership all over their body.
Not all people are murderers but all murderers are people.
Birth rates in middle america are collapsing right now. Share of young men who decide to fight to geat a life will become smaller and smaller. In 20-30 years from now middle america *won’*t be considered to be a slaughterhouse. Promised!
A reminder to all commentators that are against the policy (but didn’t give a shit about el Salvador when it was the murder capital of the world), Bukele remains the most popular democratic elected politician in the world. By a huge margin. El Salvadorans have clearly spoken about what policy they want.
![[OC] El Salvador - A Dramatic Decrease in Homicide](https://www.europesays.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/a1fy6wwufsjd1-1920x1024.png)
30 comments
Data sources:
– [https://dataunodc.un.org/dp-intentional-homicide-victims](https://dataunodc.un.org/dp-intentional-homicide-victims)
– [https://elsalvadorinfo.net/homicide-rate-in-el-salvador/](https://elsalvadorinfo.net/homicide-rate-in-el-salvador/)
– [https://homicide.igarape.org.br/](https://homicide.igarape.org.br/)
Tools used: Matplotlib & Canva
The logic of El Salvador: If you put all young uneducated men in prison you get less violence.
In an ironic twist many young uneducated men in the USA support this measure.
They think that they would not be put in prison because “they have done nothing wrong”.
too bad for the few “innocent ones” but the amount of lives saved over idk the next 10-20 years will be higher than the amount of innocent locked up. Wait till they start releasing people because of human rights and see the homicide rate skyrocket again. That society needs a healthy break from gangs infecting the youth with voilence.
This is kind of an interesting philosophical question. At what point does the risk of imprisoning innocents outweigh the risk of innocents getting hurt by criminals?
How come it was plummeting for 4 years prior to this policy?
Since the 2015 peak, 90%+ of the crime reduction happened before implementing new policies.
That’s is what happens when you fight crime the right way and put criminals in jail 🙂
Good for the citizens of El Salvador!
Now include the bit where Bukele has been undercounted the murders https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/08/08/el-salvador-bukele-crime-homicide-prison-gangs/
Just out of curiosity, how many of you in the comments are from El Salvador? (I don’t think whether you are or not has any bearing on what you say.)
Well… [Random Quote that comes to mind](https://youtu.be/_bTyKYHqsB4?t=30)…
If he really lets anyone rot in Jail without a chance of “redeeming” themselves ( guilty or not ) then yea… 🤔 That for sure could be considered a bit of a problem 🤨 Perhaps he’ll start a tiered rehabilitation program starting with those that cannot be tied to a crime?
At the cost of innocent people not being murdered and extorted.
What I think would be more interesting than a comparison with the US is to have a second line showing the prison population.
I can still see the value in having some comparison, so something like showing LatAm average homicides and prison populations would help demonstrate the dramatic swings going on here.
Weird to me how many people are against a country that was effectively the murder capital of the world trying to organize itself.
I’d much rather see an innocent in jail than 10 innocents in the graveyard.
And people act all all males are gonna be locked up forever LOL the criminals are gonna serve sentences based on accusations. Eventually they’ll be free and reintegrated into a society that is no longer rules by gangs.
And Americans love to talk without understanding the local culture. The innocents in jail are but a very small fraction. You don’t tattoo the name of a gang in your neck just to be a family man doing honest work. Not in El Salvador.
I saw this stat the other day where El Salvador had the smallest amount of folks in prison but the most per 1000 people
It’s worth it if it’s prolongued in time, eventually the innocents incarcerated per year will be very low and the gangs won’t kill anyone because they won’t exist.
El Salvador’s problem was very unique in that most crime was conducted by one gang and they were easily identifiable. I don’t think that’s the case for 99% of other countries.
[Fern had a video](https://youtu.be/BV7Q0zYDO9I?si=Um4rddkSQ87ZHHy4) about the main prison they built and talks about the human rights questions.
They do compare El Salvador criminals to Norwegian criminals for argument’s sake so that take at least is a bit off.
The rest of the video does at least give a summary of what’s going on.
Shouldn’t human rights activists be concerned with…I don’t know, HUMANS GETTING MURDERED?
Holy shit! That’s amazing
You don’t get ms18 tattoos by an accident these people saying anything against how el Salvador has fixed it can foff
“but at what cost” The cost of prisons obviously.
How many innocents do you really think are being locked up? They’re all covered from head to toe in gang tattoos lol.
The government implemented a massive anti gang program, where they basically arrested everyone they could find who had gang tattoos. As the gang members had all clearly identified themselves with these tattoos, it turned out to be a highly effective way of completely shutting down the gangs.
Let’s not forget MS-13 originated in the United States in California slums to protect Salvadoran people from violence before becoming a traditional gang, and the US took many MS-13 gang members from it’s prisons and flew them to El Salvador without warning the government there; allowing those gang members to run rampant and cause a lot of the violence and despair historically.
It may when things get really bad to err on the side of caution and potentially imprison an innocent person than risk the loss of many innocent lives.
I really liked this video on the prision there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I34FnQSXpw8
and here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDT7wm5Rhic
Just to give this more context, the murder rate per 100 000 of the united states is also insanely high with 6-7 homicides per 100 000.
The western european countrys have all below 1 homicide per 100 000. The european average is 2.2 and the world average is 5.8.
Sensitivity v. Specificity.
You can imprison 100% of the population, that would make you perfectly efficient to imprison criminals.
They went for the gangs, and it wasn’t hard as they were all stupid enough to tattoo their membership all over their body.
Not all people are murderers but all murderers are people.
Birth rates in middle america are collapsing right now. Share of young men who decide to fight to geat a life will become smaller and smaller. In 20-30 years from now middle america *won’*t be considered to be a slaughterhouse. Promised!
A reminder to all commentators that are against the policy (but didn’t give a shit about el Salvador when it was the murder capital of the world), Bukele remains the most popular democratic elected politician in the world. By a huge margin. El Salvadorans have clearly spoken about what policy they want.