Officers handing in Tasers and firearms – Sir Mark
September 18, 2024
Officers handing in Tasers and firearms – Sir Mark
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c70w4pd9r6zo
by callum_900
23 comments
Why do you need to bring a taser or a gun to a recent crime scene? Do you need a gun/taser for a whole day of not bothering to retrieve stolen goods? Do you need gun/taser to not investigate grooming gangs? Or to celebrate pride?
*Sir Mark Rowley said a third of officers were giving up their Taser accreditation, and more than a quarter were surrendering their firearm tickets.*
*Sir Mark told the event, organised by the Police Foundation, that the online abuse faced by officers was “shameful” and that violence against officers was increasing.*
*”We should be very clear: when people, be they politicians or the public, throw accusations and slurs at the police, they put them in danger by emboldening thugs,” he said.*
I don’t really care whether police are armed. But I do think if they’re going to carry around bristling firearms then the general public should be allowed to too. There should be controls. There should be licenses. But if you’re an adult, law-abiding citizen with no previous then you ought to be able to own and operate lethal weaponry. It’s a dangerous world out there: I’ve more faith in a firearm protecting me than a police officer.
Unsurprising. You’d be mental to want to be an AFO.
If you have to use your weapon, you’ll be dragged through the courts, automatically treated as a murderer, subjected to a media and public witch hunt, and have your decision endlessly analysed with the luxury of hindsight and all for no extra pay!
On the face of it… great! We do not need a routinely armed police force. Let the armed police rock up in drop pods for all I care. We are not safer with weapons on the streets.
> “Officers should know that when they follow their training and act in good faith, that from their sergeant to their commissioner they will be supported,” Sir Mark said.
> “This is the approach in the health service.
> “It cannot be right that one part of the public sector, which also makes life and death decisions, should be held to a different standard to others.”
…what?
A lot to unpack here.
The life and death decisions in the health service are trying to save a life. Yes mistakes are made, and this is also investigated.
The life and death decisions police make are whether or not to risk taking a life. Not really the same.
Yes Police who have the power to kill people should be held to the highest standard. I can’t believe he publicly suggests otherwise.
He mentions that police should be supported from their sergeant to their commissioner… is he actually trying to criticise other police with this statement?
“We’re the biggest gang in the country. It’s time we start acting like it. Close ranks!”
So officers that fear accountability are turning in their accreditation for firearms and tasers. Sounds like a problem that is solving itself.
That’s the UK for you….gone too soft. Look at the Manchester airport incident. The Police were more interested in who leaked the footage than the actual incident. Police are still under full investigation, while the others have been let off.
[deleted]
Police officer rightfully stops gangster with lethal force (as last resort)
Legal system relentlessly pursues him
His name gets released, now he needs to fear for his safety every day
Not surprised firearms officers had enough
Not saying it’s a good or bad thing, it may just be the lesser. However isn’t this how qualified immunity talks start to happen?
As someone working within law enforcement, you can be dragged through an inquest for using anything
Who knew more accountability and getting caught out with people filming them would cause this? They wear bodycams (which for some strange reason are never turned on or the footage is lost) so what’s the problem? If you are acting within the law and you have a bodycam (multiple bodycams as well from whoever is with you at the time or even CCTV) as evidence then as a police officer you have absolutely nothing to fear.
What is the suggestion here? That Police should be above the law they are supposed to uphold. Do they want to remove that accountability?
If they do not wish to be held accountable for their use of force then they should not have a firearm,or a truncheon or handcuffs,and should reconsider the career choice.
The police have a very hard job, they are massively understaffed, there should be 100,000 more officers than there is, so they are constantly putting out fires, running from one disaster to another, crimes don’t get solved, the public feel unsafe because they are unsafe.
But the glee with which many of them go after members of the general public they feel they can get an easy arrest out of, while ignoring serious crime like drug dealing and other gang activities, destroy the publics trust in them. They appear to be bullies, picking on the weak while ignoring the strong.
And that’s before you get into the blatant two-tier treatment of certain groups. What are the public supposed to do, just take it, and keep supporting the bullies?
Maybe if the heads of the police didn’t force many officers to spend their limited time acting as Stasi visiting people over admittedly nasty facebook posts instead of actually helping the public with investigating real crimes like the thousands of burglaries they do nothing about, people would be more inclined be pro Police or at least neutral.
As it stands any action that could be perceived as negative, no matter if unavoidable or correct, will receive hate from many purely because that’s the general sentiment people have towards the police now.
Who can blame these officers handing in their firearms, I certainly wouldn’t want the weight of responsibility for that kind of role and public sentiment on my shoulders with the combined knowledge that simply carrying out my duty correctly might resolve in a public lambasting which will be followed by higher ups washing their hands of me to save face.
Law and order is lacking in the capital at the very least. Not surprised that officers don’t feel supported enough to risk their reputations and the abuse considering that they’re one of the few groups where “innocent until proven guilty” doesn’t really exist from the public’s perspective, largely due to politicians and the media’s relentless hunting of firearm officers.
From my personal experience, the relationship between the Met and the public in London is so fractured. There are areas of London that are borderline impossible to police due to a wall of silence on crime and a lack of trust in the police.
Car thefts are through the roof and brushed off, told to call “insurance”. Shoplifting is, at this point, no longer an enforceable crime. In my opinion, I think this filters through the entire police force across all roles, where society loses respect and trust in the police and so there’s less empathy for situations these firearm officers (in the case of OP) find themselves in.
Why feel sorry for a firearm officer when even a regular, on the beat, officer doesn’t give 2 shits when your phone is snatched, car parts ripped off your car, tools stolen out of your work van whilst people are arrested for comments online. These things do influence our perception of the police and how we all interact regardless of where we stand on policing, even on a microscopic case by case basis.
They don’t actually protect these vitally important officers though, they’re happy to protect officers having sexual contact with vulnerable individuals in their police vehicles or ones who sadistically pepper spray mentally ill people but when it comes to firearms officers for some reason they’re just abandoned.
As others have said it’s accountability that sets the UK apart from say the US. Police here aren’t exactly anything special and while I and many others will of had the odd bad experience with police being pricks, using force when not necessary and antagonising people, the vast majority of police are genuinely good people who for the most part are held to the same standard as us. You can stand and argue with a police officer here and not be scared or intimidated by them cause you both know either one of you can get in shit once you start escalating it. The article is the problem of this though. I’d guess a lot of firearms officers are gonna be much more sharper thinkers and reasonable than the standard person or police officer. I’d be very surprised if we had more than 0.01% of firearms incidents that weren’t reasonable so would trust them to be right 9/10 times
Frankly, that’s as it should be. US and Aus cops (and countless others i assume) get protection from the media, cop unions and pollies for all their heinous and murderous activities.
“ Hey my dude, would you like a smidge extra money to do the same job? Here is a gun, if you use it in anyway you’re gonna have your name in the press and lose your job. Maybe we find you innocent, but only after 8 weeks of panic attacks and threats to your family. Sound good?”
I’ve worked in Policing and it is toxic. You just have to look at attrition rates for new PC’s and it tells you the story. Young people with passion and ethics do the job for 5 minutes and think “Sod this” and go and earn £10k+ more a year elsewhere, for a better work life balance, and more HR/managerial support.
It’s bad enough dealing with the general public. It would be a challenging job with that alone. However when you’ve got to watch your back as well as your front it becomes nigh-on impossible. If it’s not the criminals and/or public trying to do you over, it’s colleagues or it’s line management.
What people don’t realise as a Police Constable you do not have an employment contract. You hold a public office. That sounds really grand but what it means in reality is that your management can use and abuse you. Days off cancelled, annual leave blocked and declined, shifts rarely ending on time, unmanageable workload. The list goes on.
You’d have to be mental to be in Policing nowadays. You’re filling the gaps where the rest of the state system is failing.
Public ridicule police… police are reluctant to do their job… crime increases …
23 comments
Why do you need to bring a taser or a gun to a recent crime scene? Do you need a gun/taser for a whole day of not bothering to retrieve stolen goods? Do you need gun/taser to not investigate grooming gangs? Or to celebrate pride?
*Sir Mark Rowley said a third of officers were giving up their Taser accreditation, and more than a quarter were surrendering their firearm tickets.*
*Sir Mark told the event, organised by the Police Foundation, that the online abuse faced by officers was “shameful” and that violence against officers was increasing.*
*”We should be very clear: when people, be they politicians or the public, throw accusations and slurs at the police, they put them in danger by emboldening thugs,” he said.*
I don’t really care whether police are armed. But I do think if they’re going to carry around bristling firearms then the general public should be allowed to too. There should be controls. There should be licenses. But if you’re an adult, law-abiding citizen with no previous then you ought to be able to own and operate lethal weaponry. It’s a dangerous world out there: I’ve more faith in a firearm protecting me than a police officer.
Unsurprising. You’d be mental to want to be an AFO.
If you have to use your weapon, you’ll be dragged through the courts, automatically treated as a murderer, subjected to a media and public witch hunt, and have your decision endlessly analysed with the luxury of hindsight and all for no extra pay!
On the face of it… great! We do not need a routinely armed police force. Let the armed police rock up in drop pods for all I care. We are not safer with weapons on the streets.
> “Officers should know that when they follow their training and act in good faith, that from their sergeant to their commissioner they will be supported,” Sir Mark said.
> “This is the approach in the health service.
> “It cannot be right that one part of the public sector, which also makes life and death decisions, should be held to a different standard to others.”
…what?
A lot to unpack here.
The life and death decisions in the health service are trying to save a life. Yes mistakes are made, and this is also investigated.
The life and death decisions police make are whether or not to risk taking a life. Not really the same.
Yes Police who have the power to kill people should be held to the highest standard. I can’t believe he publicly suggests otherwise.
He mentions that police should be supported from their sergeant to their commissioner… is he actually trying to criticise other police with this statement?
“We’re the biggest gang in the country. It’s time we start acting like it. Close ranks!”
So officers that fear accountability are turning in their accreditation for firearms and tasers. Sounds like a problem that is solving itself.
That’s the UK for you….gone too soft. Look at the Manchester airport incident. The Police were more interested in who leaked the footage than the actual incident. Police are still under full investigation, while the others have been let off.
[deleted]
Police officer rightfully stops gangster with lethal force (as last resort)
Legal system relentlessly pursues him
His name gets released, now he needs to fear for his safety every day
Not surprised firearms officers had enough
Not saying it’s a good or bad thing, it may just be the lesser. However isn’t this how qualified immunity talks start to happen?
As someone working within law enforcement, you can be dragged through an inquest for using anything
Who knew more accountability and getting caught out with people filming them would cause this? They wear bodycams (which for some strange reason are never turned on or the footage is lost) so what’s the problem? If you are acting within the law and you have a bodycam (multiple bodycams as well from whoever is with you at the time or even CCTV) as evidence then as a police officer you have absolutely nothing to fear.
What is the suggestion here? That Police should be above the law they are supposed to uphold. Do they want to remove that accountability?
If they do not wish to be held accountable for their use of force then they should not have a firearm,or a truncheon or handcuffs,and should reconsider the career choice.
The police have a very hard job, they are massively understaffed, there should be 100,000 more officers than there is, so they are constantly putting out fires, running from one disaster to another, crimes don’t get solved, the public feel unsafe because they are unsafe.
But the glee with which many of them go after members of the general public they feel they can get an easy arrest out of, while ignoring serious crime like drug dealing and other gang activities, destroy the publics trust in them. They appear to be bullies, picking on the weak while ignoring the strong.
And that’s before you get into the blatant two-tier treatment of certain groups. What are the public supposed to do, just take it, and keep supporting the bullies?
Maybe if the heads of the police didn’t force many officers to spend their limited time acting as Stasi visiting people over admittedly nasty facebook posts instead of actually helping the public with investigating real crimes like the thousands of burglaries they do nothing about, people would be more inclined be pro Police or at least neutral.
As it stands any action that could be perceived as negative, no matter if unavoidable or correct, will receive hate from many purely because that’s the general sentiment people have towards the police now.
Who can blame these officers handing in their firearms, I certainly wouldn’t want the weight of responsibility for that kind of role and public sentiment on my shoulders with the combined knowledge that simply carrying out my duty correctly might resolve in a public lambasting which will be followed by higher ups washing their hands of me to save face.
Law and order is lacking in the capital at the very least. Not surprised that officers don’t feel supported enough to risk their reputations and the abuse considering that they’re one of the few groups where “innocent until proven guilty” doesn’t really exist from the public’s perspective, largely due to politicians and the media’s relentless hunting of firearm officers.
From my personal experience, the relationship between the Met and the public in London is so fractured. There are areas of London that are borderline impossible to police due to a wall of silence on crime and a lack of trust in the police.
Car thefts are through the roof and brushed off, told to call “insurance”. Shoplifting is, at this point, no longer an enforceable crime. In my opinion, I think this filters through the entire police force across all roles, where society loses respect and trust in the police and so there’s less empathy for situations these firearm officers (in the case of OP) find themselves in.
Why feel sorry for a firearm officer when even a regular, on the beat, officer doesn’t give 2 shits when your phone is snatched, car parts ripped off your car, tools stolen out of your work van whilst people are arrested for comments online. These things do influence our perception of the police and how we all interact regardless of where we stand on policing, even on a microscopic case by case basis.
They don’t actually protect these vitally important officers though, they’re happy to protect officers having sexual contact with vulnerable individuals in their police vehicles or ones who sadistically pepper spray mentally ill people but when it comes to firearms officers for some reason they’re just abandoned.
As others have said it’s accountability that sets the UK apart from say the US. Police here aren’t exactly anything special and while I and many others will of had the odd bad experience with police being pricks, using force when not necessary and antagonising people, the vast majority of police are genuinely good people who for the most part are held to the same standard as us. You can stand and argue with a police officer here and not be scared or intimidated by them cause you both know either one of you can get in shit once you start escalating it. The article is the problem of this though. I’d guess a lot of firearms officers are gonna be much more sharper thinkers and reasonable than the standard person or police officer. I’d be very surprised if we had more than 0.01% of firearms incidents that weren’t reasonable so would trust them to be right 9/10 times
Frankly, that’s as it should be. US and Aus cops (and countless others i assume) get protection from the media, cop unions and pollies for all their heinous and murderous activities.
“ Hey my dude, would you like a smidge extra money to do the same job? Here is a gun, if you use it in anyway you’re gonna have your name in the press and lose your job. Maybe we find you innocent, but only after 8 weeks of panic attacks and threats to your family. Sound good?”
I’ve worked in Policing and it is toxic. You just have to look at attrition rates for new PC’s and it tells you the story. Young people with passion and ethics do the job for 5 minutes and think “Sod this” and go and earn £10k+ more a year elsewhere, for a better work life balance, and more HR/managerial support.
It’s bad enough dealing with the general public. It would be a challenging job with that alone. However when you’ve got to watch your back as well as your front it becomes nigh-on impossible. If it’s not the criminals and/or public trying to do you over, it’s colleagues or it’s line management.
What people don’t realise as a Police Constable you do not have an employment contract. You hold a public office. That sounds really grand but what it means in reality is that your management can use and abuse you. Days off cancelled, annual leave blocked and declined, shifts rarely ending on time, unmanageable workload. The list goes on.
You’d have to be mental to be in Policing nowadays. You’re filling the gaps where the rest of the state system is failing.
Public ridicule police… police are reluctant to do their job… crime increases …
Public: Why ? ( stick in wheel meme )