Ukraine may join NATO before gaining membership in the European Union, according to the dynamics of ongoing negotiations and the traditions of EU expansion, according to Oleksandr Kornienko, First Deputy Speaker of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
Orban and fico
That’s not that surprising, the criteria to join the EU are much stricter than the criteria to join NATO
Nato membership is the only way the fighting ends for good. How much of Ukraine joins depends on the wars outcome.
hot-take: NATO is a military alliance peppered here and there with some social progressivism. EU is a geopolitical vision that has has social progressivism as a foundational pillar.
Let’s not forget that Ukraine has a terribly burdensome legacy that it must address as a prerequisite to meet the societal standards of the EU. Corruption, and LGBT+ rights come to mind.
Let there be no room for doubt that they have made phenomenal strides in rising to the standards of the EU, which is even more impressive in the context of doing so in the midst of their fight for survival and identity.
Still: The standards for entry to the EU are going to take a lot more nation building efforts overall, but it will be to everyones benefit **when** we welcome them as fully fledged members, with no compromises on standards made.
Ukraine expects to join NATO *before* joining the EU
Sorry but the headline is stupid.
I can’t help but feel that these discussions about NATO membership are the tail wagging the dog.
NATO membership only makes sense if NATO countries are willing to actively defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity, i.e. put boots on the ground. A token membership without this level of involvement helps nobody and would serve no purpose.
On the other hand nothing prevents (a significant subset of) NATO members from already doing that right now, without Ukraine being in NATO. Western countries went to war to liberate Kuwait and to stop the genocide in Bosnia, when neither Kuwait nor Bosnia were in NATO. The fact that we’re not seeing anything hinting at that level of involvement from any NATO country, tells you all you need to know about our willingness. We’re not even willing to shoot down Russian missiles near our airspace.
So in my opinion, the discussion should not be around NATO membership and all the well known little dictators who would obviously veto it, but around who is willing to put boots on the ground to help Ukraine, and how and when.
Finland and Sweden joined NATO in a flash, so certainly the process is less involved.
8 comments
Ukraine may join NATO before gaining membership in the European Union, according to the dynamics of ongoing negotiations and the traditions of EU expansion, according to Oleksandr Kornienko, First Deputy Speaker of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
Orban and fico
That’s not that surprising, the criteria to join the EU are much stricter than the criteria to join NATO
Nato membership is the only way the fighting ends for good. How much of Ukraine joins depends on the wars outcome.
hot-take: NATO is a military alliance peppered here and there with some social progressivism. EU is a geopolitical vision that has has social progressivism as a foundational pillar.
Let’s not forget that Ukraine has a terribly burdensome legacy that it must address as a prerequisite to meet the societal standards of the EU. Corruption, and LGBT+ rights come to mind.
Let there be no room for doubt that they have made phenomenal strides in rising to the standards of the EU, which is even more impressive in the context of doing so in the midst of their fight for survival and identity.
Still: The standards for entry to the EU are going to take a lot more nation building efforts overall, but it will be to everyones benefit **when** we welcome them as fully fledged members, with no compromises on standards made.
Ukraine expects to join NATO *before* joining the EU
Sorry but the headline is stupid.
I can’t help but feel that these discussions about NATO membership are the tail wagging the dog.
NATO membership only makes sense if NATO countries are willing to actively defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity, i.e. put boots on the ground. A token membership without this level of involvement helps nobody and would serve no purpose.
On the other hand nothing prevents (a significant subset of) NATO members from already doing that right now, without Ukraine being in NATO. Western countries went to war to liberate Kuwait and to stop the genocide in Bosnia, when neither Kuwait nor Bosnia were in NATO. The fact that we’re not seeing anything hinting at that level of involvement from any NATO country, tells you all you need to know about our willingness. We’re not even willing to shoot down Russian missiles near our airspace.
So in my opinion, the discussion should not be around NATO membership and all the well known little dictators who would obviously veto it, but around who is willing to put boots on the ground to help Ukraine, and how and when.
Finland and Sweden joined NATO in a flash, so certainly the process is less involved.