Unnamed European and US sources have been briefing for the past 10 days that it may be time to cut a deal with the Kremlin, with Russia advancing along the front line and [Vladimir Putin scoring diplomatic wins in Africa](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/04/ukraine-russia-diplomacy-geopolitics/), South Asia and the Middle East, critical for pushing international agendas.
He is very welcome, he will however find we have total idiots in charge now……..
[removed]
I wouldn’t bother if I was him xD
That pillock is untrustworthy, also not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
“Unnamed European and US sources have been briefing for the past 10 days that it may be time to cut a deal with the Kremlin,”
Why the FUCK would these sources need to remain “unnamed”? If they can’t put their name behind the Russian propaganda that they push, then don’t fuckin quote them.
The simple facts are – we in Europe can’t rely on the Americans.
We are waiting to see if they will elect Mussolini tribute act Donald Trump again. A man against NATO, who would parcel up Ukraine on a plate to Putin.
The Brits spent most of 2016 to 2020 declaring to the world how outside the EU they would spread their wings to peruse a ‘Global Britain’ strategy.
No better time lads than right now. Europe needs to take its own security into its own hands, the Americans are more concerned with supplying Israel with bombs for Palestine than Ukraine with bombs for Mariupol.
Them’s the facts, time to act on them.
So Russia is winning, albeit at a crazy cost in men and money.
The US and EU aren’t prepared to hand off loads of missiles, and the F16’s probably aren’t a big game changer anymore, as they’ve shot down a lot of Russian jets already with manpads.
I hate to say it, but this will have to hit a “deal” eventually. My worry is that Putin takes a breather and comes back for more of Ukraine in 3 years.
Fucking Russians man.
Eu is still getting gas and oil from putler, still suking the red tit
Im going to presume all the negative assholes in the comments are bots/accounts stirring things up
Unfortunately I worry britain will disappoint Zelensky. We had little ammunition stockpiled to begin with and unlike the rest of Europe we have not meaningfully increased our production or orders for more munitions.
The people of the UK support Ukraine completely, but sadly I worry we have little to offer after so many years of defence cuts and no willingness among any of our politicians to change that.
Let’s just forget America exists and understand we need to deal with Putin ourselves. If Trumpsville decide to wake up and help the invaded nation.
The trouble with a land for peace deal – again for those not listening is
1. Putin’s, Russia’s objective is not the Donbass, a land corridor nor Crimea 2. Putin’s/Russia’s objective is to subordinate Ukraine politically, potentially to annex it 3. Ideally the destruction of Ukraine as an independent state will lead to a domino effect around Russia’s near abroad. 4. The objective of subordination has lead to a place where Putin needs the war 5. Land for NATO membership supposes that NATO membership is on offer, which it is not 6. The “peace” part of a NATO membership for land deal, would require Russia aceding to that peace i.e. NATO membership for Ukraine, which is the exact opposite of Russia’s objective to subordinate Ukraine. Ukraine can’t be subordinate, if 80% of it is a NATO member. 7. Ukranians are not stupid and know all of that, so why would they ever agree to even the pretense of it ?
You cannot conjure a peace out of nothing with an interlocutor like Putin who is focused on his legacy as Russian leader and whose minimal bargain price is orders of magnitude more than the West can really afford to pay.
In the West, we’ve gotten used to drawing a middle way between competing interests in our societies – democracy is constant compromise.
But what is the “compromise” position between “Russia out of Ukraine” and “Ukraine annexed by Russia” ? When you try to negotiate with fascists, what happens is the fascists take over and win, because “compromise” from their perspective is not an endstate, its a means to your end and their victory.
So can we please stop projecting our political norms onto Putin and his dictatorship assuming we can negotiate with Ballet dancing, Pushking loving, Mariupol raising, Bucha committing Russia ?
Hitler liked Wagner but, that didn’t make him a cultured man you could do business with and Russian ballet doesn’t make the radical nationalist fascists running Russia people you can come to a durable solution with.
The Americans are looking inwards now, navel gazing, that’s grand, that’s their right, they don’t **owe us a living**.
But we need in Europe to do something to defend our collective interest against Russian revanchism and we need to be able to do it without the Americans at all.
A tall but not an impossible order. If the US “turns up” in the end then great.
But if it doesn’t… yeah we need our democracies and the rule of law in Europe to be preeminent not the Rule of force and the Kremlin’s word as law.
> Even Joe Biden and his supposedly hawkish White House staff were less than impressed with Mr Zelensky’s “Victory Plan”, which US officials complained was more a wishlist for weapons than a strategic masterpiece to defeat the Kremlin.
This thinking and approach are completely backwards. Ukraine can’t make a strategy without knowing that they will have the right tools to achieve victory. Strategy depends upon resources. This trickle-feeding of weapons and systems for the last 2.5 years is so fucking stupid. Give Ukraine absolutely everything that can be spared – the further west in Europe a country is the less likely they are to have an immediate need for tanks/artillery/aircraft/ammunition/etc. One of the biggest threats to European security *is* Russia – so defeat them. Give Ukraine the chance to win quickly and decisively. The Kursk incursion proves they have the capability, even without air superiority, to make important progress on the battlefield. Ukraine having overwhelming superiority of weaponry would be cheaper in the long-run. Unused equipment can be handed back. Why we have to allow Russia the time to work around any advantage Ukraine has is completely beyond me. Russia losing this war would also be a deterrent to any other nation who might have dumb ideas about imperialistic conquests
Wtf are we doing letting this guy into England?
Russia plays a double or nothing game. They gamble on the west halting their support. If the west keeps supporting UKR and preferably help ukr more by a. modern/new options of attack & b. Mark everything west of kiev odessa line as mandated no fly no agression zone under eu memberstates then this will free up resources for ukr to fight back the ruzz.
On other words: eu usa and other partners need to say: you double? sure we will match that, lets see your hand…
Keep supporting Ukr. It may take 1 or 2 more years but the ruzzian economy and warmachine cant sustain this, it will implode. Just the same as ussr did.
The Brits know a thing of two about being on the back foot, fighting for what is right even if is appears disadvantageous but taking their place on the right side of history. It takes a special breed to take that stance.
Just wish we could have done it together in the EU of the willing (mostly northern countries with decent financial policies). Russia takes that first round (Brexit). But we’re here for the long haul!
19 comments
***The Telegraph reports:***
Volodymyr Zelensky [visits Downing Street today](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/09/volodymyr-zelensky-flies-to-london-talks-sir-keir-starmer/), more than two and a half years on from [Russia’s invasion of Ukraine](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/russia-ukraine-war/), with support in the West for his war against the Kremlin starting to fracture.
Even Joe Biden and his supposedly hawkish White House staff were [less than impressed with Mr Zelensky’s “Victory Plan](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/03/western-indifference-hung-zelensky-out-dry-ukraine-russia/)”, which US officials complained was more a wishlist for weapons than a strategic masterpiece to defeat the Kremlin.
And despite pressure from Downing Street, [Mr Biden also ignored Mr Zelensky’s pleas](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/09/28/zelensky-plan-convince-biden-ukraine-storm-shadow-russia/) to be allowed to fire Western missiles at Russia.
[Western missiles striking Russian targets](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/09/13/joe-biden-ukraine-atacms-missiles-storm-shadows/) is central to Mr Zelensky’s vision of how Ukraine will win the war.
Unnamed European and US sources have been briefing for the past 10 days that it may be time to cut a deal with the Kremlin, with Russia advancing along the front line and [Vladimir Putin scoring diplomatic wins in Africa](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/04/ukraine-russia-diplomacy-geopolitics/), South Asia and the Middle East, critical for pushing international agendas.
**Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/10/zelensky-turns-to-britain-in-his-hour-of-need/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/10/zelensky-turns-to-britain-in-his-hour-of-need/)
He is very welcome, he will however find we have total idiots in charge now……..
[removed]
I wouldn’t bother if I was him xD
That pillock is untrustworthy, also not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
“Unnamed European and US sources have been briefing for the past 10 days that it may be time to cut a deal with the Kremlin,”
Why the FUCK would these sources need to remain “unnamed”? If they can’t put their name behind the Russian propaganda that they push, then don’t fuckin quote them.
The simple facts are – we in Europe can’t rely on the Americans.
We are waiting to see if they will elect Mussolini tribute act Donald Trump again. A man against NATO, who would parcel up Ukraine on a plate to Putin.
The Brits spent most of 2016 to 2020 declaring to the world how outside the EU they would spread their wings to peruse a ‘Global Britain’ strategy.
No better time lads than right now. Europe needs to take its own security into its own hands, the Americans are more concerned with supplying Israel with bombs for Palestine than Ukraine with bombs for Mariupol.
Them’s the facts, time to act on them.
So Russia is winning, albeit at a crazy cost in men and money.
The US and EU aren’t prepared to hand off loads of missiles, and the F16’s probably aren’t a big game changer anymore, as they’ve shot down a lot of Russian jets already with manpads.
I hate to say it, but this will have to hit a “deal” eventually. My worry is that Putin takes a breather and comes back for more of Ukraine in 3 years.
Fucking Russians man.
Eu is still getting gas and oil from putler, still suking the red tit
Im going to presume all the negative assholes in the comments are bots/accounts stirring things up
Unfortunately I worry britain will disappoint Zelensky. We had little ammunition stockpiled to begin with and unlike the rest of Europe we have not meaningfully increased our production or orders for more munitions.
The people of the UK support Ukraine completely, but sadly I worry we have little to offer after so many years of defence cuts and no willingness among any of our politicians to change that.
Let’s just forget America exists and understand we need to deal with Putin ourselves.
If Trumpsville decide to wake up and help the invaded nation.
The trouble with a land for peace deal – again for those not listening is
1. Putin’s, Russia’s objective is not the Donbass, a land corridor nor Crimea
2. Putin’s/Russia’s objective is to subordinate Ukraine politically, potentially to annex it
3. Ideally the destruction of Ukraine as an independent state will lead to a domino effect around Russia’s near abroad.
4. The objective of subordination has lead to a place where Putin needs the war
5. Land for NATO membership supposes that NATO membership is on offer, which it is not
6. The “peace” part of a NATO membership for land deal, would require Russia aceding to that peace i.e. NATO membership for Ukraine, which is the exact opposite of Russia’s objective to subordinate Ukraine. Ukraine can’t be subordinate, if 80% of it is a NATO member.
7. Ukranians are not stupid and know all of that, so why would they ever agree to even the pretense of it ?
You cannot conjure a peace out of nothing with an interlocutor like Putin who is focused on his legacy as Russian leader and whose minimal bargain price is orders of magnitude more than the West can really afford to pay.
In the West, we’ve gotten used to drawing a middle way between competing interests in our societies – democracy is constant compromise.
But what is the “compromise” position between “Russia out of Ukraine” and “Ukraine annexed by Russia” ? When you try to negotiate with fascists, what happens is the fascists take over and win, because “compromise” from their perspective is not an endstate, its a means to your end and their victory.
So can we please stop projecting our political norms onto Putin and his dictatorship assuming we can negotiate with Ballet dancing, Pushking loving, Mariupol raising, Bucha committing Russia ?
Hitler liked Wagner but, that didn’t make him a cultured man you could do business with and Russian ballet doesn’t make the radical nationalist fascists running Russia people you can come to a durable solution with.
The Americans are looking inwards now, navel gazing, that’s grand, that’s their right, they don’t **owe us a living**.
But we need in Europe to do something to defend our collective interest against Russian revanchism and we need to be able to do it without the Americans at all.
A tall but not an impossible order. If the US “turns up” in the end then great.
But if it doesn’t… yeah we need our democracies and the rule of law in Europe to be preeminent not the Rule of force and the Kremlin’s word as law.
> Even Joe Biden and his supposedly hawkish White House staff were less than impressed with Mr Zelensky’s “Victory Plan”, which US officials complained was more a wishlist for weapons than a strategic masterpiece to defeat the Kremlin.
This thinking and approach are completely backwards. Ukraine can’t make a strategy without knowing that they will have the right tools to achieve victory. Strategy depends upon resources. This trickle-feeding of weapons and systems for the last 2.5 years is so fucking stupid. Give Ukraine absolutely everything that can be spared – the further west in Europe a country is the less likely they are to have an immediate need for tanks/artillery/aircraft/ammunition/etc. One of the biggest threats to European security *is* Russia – so defeat them. Give Ukraine the chance to win quickly and decisively. The Kursk incursion proves they have the capability, even without air superiority, to make important progress on the battlefield. Ukraine having overwhelming superiority of weaponry would be cheaper in the long-run. Unused equipment can be handed back. Why we have to allow Russia the time to work around any advantage Ukraine has is completely beyond me. Russia losing this war would also be a deterrent to any other nation who might have dumb ideas about imperialistic conquests
Wtf are we doing letting this guy into England?
Russia plays a double or nothing game. They gamble on the west halting their support. If the west keeps supporting UKR and preferably help ukr more by a. modern/new options of attack & b. Mark everything west of kiev odessa line as mandated no fly no agression zone under eu memberstates then this will free up resources for ukr to fight back the ruzz.
On other words: eu usa and other partners need to say: you double? sure we will match that, lets see your hand…
Keep supporting Ukr. It may take 1 or 2 more years but the ruzzian economy and warmachine cant sustain this, it will implode. Just the same as ussr did.
The Brits know a thing of two about being on the back foot, fighting for what is right even if is appears disadvantageous but taking their place on the right side of history. It takes a special breed to take that stance.
Just wish we could have done it together in the EU of the willing (mostly northern countries with decent financial policies). Russia takes that first round (Brexit). But we’re here for the long haul!
And Britain will answer 🇬🇧🇺🇦
Why make up the headline?