I’ll save you a click. They say migration is not only A reason, but THE ONLY reason.
Yes old people eventually and sadly die and if we don’t allow people to afford kids you get a demographic change.
>But in 2023 that changed: the number of births was smaller than the number of deaths. The upshot was that the “natural population” fell.
This is the real news. Migration can be controlled by government, birth rate not so much. South Korea has shown that throwing money at the problem doesn’t solve it, and now they are facing an immense population crunch. Since migration is not politically sustainable, our government need to figure out a way to bring it back up again.
>What is genuinely new is that that net migration wasn’t just part of the explanation for higher population growth; it was the entire explanation for population growth.
>And not just any population growth – the highest population growth in more than three-quarters of a century.
>That’s totally unprecedented. And whatever your thoughts about migration – and the demographics of the UK – it’s a salient fact that deserves to be debated more.
People have voted for parties promising to slow down immigration for every election for perhaps the past 23 years.
We do not have the housing and we do not have the state resources for this scale of immigration. We are very seriously fiscally constrained: we are spending 44% of GDP through the state and that is being spent with a 3% deficit. Every service is being cut per capita other than pensions and health that are going up. Immigration is not causing some magical boom in the economy, we have had the highest growth in immigration and the flattest GDP growth on record, averaging about 1.1% since 2010.
People are arguing like it’s 1997 and we have a booming economy and immigration is in the high 10 000s a year so there are great arguments for it to continue. Its not.
There is zero democratic mandate for this. It is not helping the economy, it is a big part of driving up the costs of housing and its soaking up available renting spaces.
This has to be a mainstream political issue and not one shut down by crying racist.
**Breaking news**: Extortionate childcare costs and rising house prices have resulted in people having fewer babies.
In other words we are undergoing an unprecedented demographic transformation which will be treated by future history books in a similar way as we think about the arrival of the Romans, Saxons, Vikings, Normans _etc_.
There’s never been any strategy for assimilation, and no politicians or civil servants ever apparently bothered to consider the _propensity_ of different migrant groups to integrate. And the scale and speed of the mass immigration has created the conditions for parallel societies and ghettos to flourish, with the London cosmopolitan elites seemingly unaware of the social experiment they’ve begun.
Hotel rooms, cars, restaurant tables. Nothing is really adapted for large families. Why have one?
More short terms strategies from the uk. I think when individualism and consumerism drives the economy, not to mention the conservative mantra of “don’t buy what you can’t afford” then is it any wonder.
Conservatives complained about those on benefits being able to afford flat screen TV’s instead of clothing their kids. People listened and said “fine, we won’t have kids then”.
Article got me interested, explained the facts, told me that it needed to be debated and then stopped. I was waiting for them to at least start the debate.
Clickbait.
I mean, yeah, it’s not really a shocker, and it’s going to be needed. I mean who the hell is going to wipe our arses for us if we manage to get to the age of 80/90 and there’s still such a thing as retirement age (press x to doubt).
Robotics and AI will solve *some* of the problem, but it’s not going to fix it all.
[removed]
So after so much of the “Its not happening and youre a racist for pointing it out” were now into the “Oh yeah its actually happening” phase of things…
Hopefully Labour is going to dramatically reduce immigration and make it harder to gain citizenship, I hope they won’t be as right wing as the tories were on the matter.
I think there’s a right for people to be concerned. If you ask almost every person with a migrant background, if they would be happy with their ancestral country going from 90% majority demographic to a much lower figure they would be upset. Imagine how Pakistanis would feel going from 99% Muslim to like 50% Muslim in a few decades due to immigration. Chaos.
They would be causing a ruckus about it on the streets of the UK never mind actually in Pakistan.
* Queen scallop: proposed fisheries management plan
* Updating the benchmarks used in determining the profit rate for non-competitive defence contracts
* A seasonal closure of crawfish fishery in ICES area 7
* Consultation on development of land adjoining Hampton Court Station Site
* Open access restriction at Twin Oaks Farm
* Further advertising restrictions on TV and online for products high in fat, salt or sugar
* Sprinklers in care homes
* Extending the Ivory Act to other ivory bearing species
And yet the UK population have never once been consulted on whether they want massive irreversible changes to the demographics and culture of the UK. Never once.
Pretty much puts to bed that myth that most immigrants coming here are only students and eventually leave, commonly spread by our media.
It’s mostly money, but also simply choice. Lots of women prefer their career over children. Lots of men are not willing to sacrifice dating lots of women to stay with one woman.
We are in the middle of a massive social change, and we can’t fully see it yet.
What this article doesn’t include is the profile of the foreigners immigrating.
Are they evenly distributed? Or concentrated in the 20-40 age group? Or mainly in the 60+ age group?
If enough foreigners immigrating are <30, it would presumably cause the nation’s median age to stay about the same, or even go down. If they were older than the national average, then this may lead to an increase in the median.
I sometimes think of an alternative time I could have been born where I had some kids, but as it is now I have basically accepted that I won’t ever have kids, especially nearing 40.
It’s fucked really how the greed of a country can totally derail your life. I know I could very well have kids but why should they suffer or accept a life on the dole to pay for them.
19 comments
I’ll save you a click. They say migration is not only A reason, but THE ONLY reason.
Yes old people eventually and sadly die and if we don’t allow people to afford kids you get a demographic change.
>But in 2023 that changed: the number of births was smaller than the number of deaths. The upshot was that the “natural population” fell.
This is the real news. Migration can be controlled by government, birth rate not so much. South Korea has shown that throwing money at the problem doesn’t solve it, and now they are facing an immense population crunch. Since migration is not politically sustainable, our government need to figure out a way to bring it back up again.
>What is genuinely new is that that net migration wasn’t just part of the explanation for higher population growth; it was the entire explanation for population growth.
>And not just any population growth – the highest population growth in more than three-quarters of a century.
>That’s totally unprecedented. And whatever your thoughts about migration – and the demographics of the UK – it’s a salient fact that deserves to be debated more.
People have voted for parties promising to slow down immigration for every election for perhaps the past 23 years.
We do not have the housing and we do not have the state resources for this scale of immigration. We are very seriously fiscally constrained: we are spending 44% of GDP through the state and that is being spent with a 3% deficit. Every service is being cut per capita other than pensions and health that are going up. Immigration is not causing some magical boom in the economy, we have had the highest growth in immigration and the flattest GDP growth on record, averaging about 1.1% since 2010.
People are arguing like it’s 1997 and we have a booming economy and immigration is in the high 10 000s a year so there are great arguments for it to continue. Its not.
There is zero democratic mandate for this. It is not helping the economy, it is a big part of driving up the costs of housing and its soaking up available renting spaces.
This has to be a mainstream political issue and not one shut down by crying racist.
**Breaking news**: Extortionate childcare costs and rising house prices have resulted in people having fewer babies.
Truly groundbreaking research there.
Even as recently as the 1991 census the UK was around 95% white British, now just over 30 years later we are nearing 40% of primary school pupils being from a minority background (it’s [currently 37.4%](https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-pupils-and-their-characteristics) and increasing at around 1% a year).
In other words we are undergoing an unprecedented demographic transformation which will be treated by future history books in a similar way as we think about the arrival of the Romans, Saxons, Vikings, Normans _etc_.
There’s never been any strategy for assimilation, and no politicians or civil servants ever apparently bothered to consider the _propensity_ of different migrant groups to integrate. And the scale and speed of the mass immigration has created the conditions for parallel societies and ghettos to flourish, with the London cosmopolitan elites seemingly unaware of the social experiment they’ve begun.
Hotel rooms, cars, restaurant tables. Nothing is really adapted for large families. Why have one?
More short terms strategies from the uk. I think when individualism and consumerism drives the economy, not to mention the conservative mantra of “don’t buy what you can’t afford” then is it any wonder.
Conservatives complained about those on benefits being able to afford flat screen TV’s instead of clothing their kids. People listened and said “fine, we won’t have kids then”.
Article got me interested, explained the facts, told me that it needed to be debated and then stopped. I was waiting for them to at least start the debate.
Clickbait.
I mean, yeah, it’s not really a shocker, and it’s going to be needed. I mean who the hell is going to wipe our arses for us if we manage to get to the age of 80/90 and there’s still such a thing as retirement age (press x to doubt).
Robotics and AI will solve *some* of the problem, but it’s not going to fix it all.
[removed]
So after so much of the “Its not happening and youre a racist for pointing it out” were now into the “Oh yeah its actually happening” phase of things…
Hopefully Labour is going to dramatically reduce immigration and make it harder to gain citizenship, I hope they won’t be as right wing as the tories were on the matter.
I think there’s a right for people to be concerned. If you ask almost every person with a migrant background, if they would be happy with their ancestral country going from 90% majority demographic to a much lower figure they would be upset. Imagine how Pakistanis would feel going from 99% Muslim to like 50% Muslim in a few decades due to immigration. Chaos.
They would be causing a ruckus about it on the streets of the UK never mind actually in Pakistan.
Some things the UK government is currently consulting on (https://www.gov.uk/government/get-involved):
* The Seafarers’ Wages Act
* Queen scallop: proposed fisheries management plan
* Updating the benchmarks used in determining the profit rate for non-competitive defence contracts
* A seasonal closure of crawfish fishery in ICES area 7
* Consultation on development of land adjoining Hampton Court Station Site
* Open access restriction at Twin Oaks Farm
* Further advertising restrictions on TV and online for products high in fat, salt or sugar
* Sprinklers in care homes
* Extending the Ivory Act to other ivory bearing species
And yet the UK population have never once been consulted on whether they want massive irreversible changes to the demographics and culture of the UK. Never once.
Pretty much puts to bed that myth that most immigrants coming here are only students and eventually leave, commonly spread by our media.
It’s mostly money, but also simply choice. Lots of women prefer their career over children. Lots of men are not willing to sacrifice dating lots of women to stay with one woman.
We are in the middle of a massive social change, and we can’t fully see it yet.
What this article doesn’t include is the profile of the foreigners immigrating.
Are they evenly distributed? Or concentrated in the 20-40 age group? Or mainly in the 60+ age group?
If enough foreigners immigrating are <30, it would presumably cause the nation’s median age to stay about the same, or even go down. If they were older than the national average, then this may lead to an increase in the median.
I sometimes think of an alternative time I could have been born where I had some kids, but as it is now I have basically accepted that I won’t ever have kids, especially nearing 40.
It’s fucked really how the greed of a country can totally derail your life. I know I could very well have kids but why should they suffer or accept a life on the dole to pay for them.