Still plenty of time. The only nearby enemy has tanks from the 70s and no air force.
De Gaulle will be considered a hero outside of France by the end of the century (in 1 month if Drumpf is elected).
I mean I still fw De Gaulle’s policies, I don’t like everything he did but like he knew what could happen if we didn’t do anything for self reliance. Here we are
Hear me out: Western Europe delivers money and tech for an army, Eastern Europe the meat for the grinder.
People praising De Gaulle in this thread
> De Gaulle being very much against something like the EDF
> De Gaulle wanting to keep Germany weak in every scenario
> De Gaulle cancelling joint European nuclear armament programs
This is a broken clock being right twice every 24 hours.
Get UK back on the ship. Get in Norway and Iceland. Ireland and Austria can become actual parts of the alliance, and not free-riders anymore. If Hungary doesn’t want to come, I see that as an advantage. And we won’t have to be allied with Turkey anymore. I see only wins here.
I sincerely hope we’ll stop being dependent on other country when it comes to this.
We litteraly can do everything and almost better in western Europe (except overcostly and over needy of maintenance fighters like the best the US can offer).
And whilst the journo in the OP is obviously talking about governments, here’s an interesting poll of public opinion in member states on the whole “EU defence force v Nato” debate (from 2018).
We have a war in europe *right fucking now*, and as much as I like the french – looking at their effort towards Ukraine, I’d rather rely on the brits.
Everyone’s pleading to Germany to arm up, and get ready to ~~fight~~ defend.
Selling all of you if that means i can be an lazy fuck? Would do it again
Always have
Sovereign European defence lol.
We have slowly but steadily been working on a more and more integrated Nordic military, and even with heavy cooperation there is no question that we have completely different militaries.
Maybe you can have some divisions of “EU troops”, but what really needs to happen is for all European countries to get their shit together and make sure that *their* military is worthy its name.
EU is good and all, but we are too different for an EU-army to work. We need close cooperation within EU though.
Why would I sacrifice my healthcare so Americans spend less? They’re the idiot you convince to carry everything because they’re sooo strong.
I will out myself here as an academic researching geopolitics, the actual tradition. For public enjoyment, a history of the idea of European self reliance:
The idea that a divided Europe would be doomed to fade into irrelevance next to the larger powers of the world and would thus need to be united actually originated in the geopolitical thought of the German Empire. The liberal version of achieving this through diplomacy and trade was embodied in Bismarck‘s successor as chancellor of the Reich, Leo von Caprivi, who ultimately fell because his reformist course angered the Junkers, the landed gentry of Germany (and especially Prussia). Before and throughout the First World War, the German allegation toward the British was that London was still fighting the last war (referring to Napoleon) and trying to preserve a balance of powers in Europe that had become obsolete with the rise of the peripheral powers of the US and Russia. Contrary to popular belief, the German goal in the First World War was not world hegemony but a plural world order in which naval Britain and continental Germany would represent Europe. Bethmann-Hollweg hoped until the very last moment that Britain would see this logic and join on Germany‘s side. Arguably, the complete and utter incompetence of German diplomats as well as the cluelessness of the British foreign policy establishment are to blame for the fact that the two countries could not come to an agreement or at least avoid a larger war in Europe (See, among others, Calleo: The German Problem Reconsidered. Dehio: Gleichgewicht oder Hegemonie)
Hitler mixed this geopolitical analysis of needing to unite Europe with his deranged ideas about race and the purity of blood. He, too, hoped for the very last second that the Brits would eventually join him (that’s why the German army let the British troops get away at Dunkirk), but whereas there was a decent change of this happening with imperial Germany, which was not unlike most other countries at the time, there was absolutely no way London would cooperate with the hellish Nazi regime. Britain would rather knowingly accept the decline of Europes global relevance and sacrifice its empire than playing second fiddle to the third Reich.
After the war, the French, personified in General DeGaulle, quietly accepted that the original analysis from imperial Germany: A disunited Europe would be delegated to mere pawns in the great game of global politics. It became the spiritual basis of the new European Community, which amusingly was not too different in form from what von Caprivi had envisioned before the reactionaries ended his career.
Edit: spelling
There’s cannot be a so called « European army » as long as there’s not an European patriotism.
Sorry, who are we expecting to attack?
This, nuclear power and their stance towards secularism are the only thing I’ll ever give the baguettes credit for.
A broken clock is correct twice a day
And by europe they mean mostly french
How about…*not bombing anyone*?
Someone forgot 1952.
100% agreed. But as a German I want to point out that USA only let people run this country if they spread their cheeks for them, so we are basically innocent.
Were they wrong? Initially, the most active countries supporting Ukraine were the USA and the UK while France and Germany were doing the bare minimum.
France is my first nation, Normandy my second, Europe, the most powerful, my third, i love all of them
Wait, you’re saying there should be an EU army? That’s mental. Just have alliances between nations – you don’t need to spend billions starting a whole new army.
[removed]
Except almost everything France proposes/wants is heavily focused on an expeditionary force instead of a defence force because they love fucking about in Africa so much
Don’t worry guys, papa America will come save you… unless trump gets in. Then you might need actual armies of your own.
32 comments
Still plenty of time. The only nearby enemy has tanks from the 70s and no air force.
De Gaulle will be considered a hero outside of France by the end of the century (in 1 month if Drumpf is elected).
I mean I still fw De Gaulle’s policies, I don’t like everything he did but like he knew what could happen if we didn’t do anything for self reliance. Here we are
Hear me out: Western Europe delivers money and tech for an army, Eastern Europe the meat for the grinder.
People praising De Gaulle in this thread
> De Gaulle being very much against something like the EDF
> De Gaulle wanting to keep Germany weak in every scenario
> De Gaulle cancelling joint European nuclear armament programs
This is a broken clock being right twice every 24 hours.
Get UK back on the ship. Get in Norway and Iceland. Ireland and Austria can become actual parts of the alliance, and not free-riders anymore. If Hungary doesn’t want to come, I see that as an advantage. And we won’t have to be allied with Turkey anymore. I see only wins here.
I sincerely hope we’ll stop being dependent on other country when it comes to this.
We litteraly can do everything and almost better in western Europe (except overcostly and over needy of maintenance fighters like the best the US can offer).
And whilst the journo in the OP is obviously talking about governments, here’s an interesting poll of public opinion in member states on the whole “EU defence force v Nato” debate (from 2018).
https://preview.redd.it/lot3fla746xd1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3ffb40dbc677626b6e821e3b1179a3ce8bc2feb
TLDR:
EU defence: France, Italy, Spain, Greece, Germany, Finland
Nato: Netherlands, Denmark, Romania, Poland, UK, Lithuania, Sweden, Hungary
[deleted]
We have a war in europe *right fucking now*, and as much as I like the french – looking at their effort towards Ukraine, I’d rather rely on the brits.
Everyone’s pleading to Germany to arm up, and get ready to ~~fight~~ defend.
Selling all of you if that means i can be an lazy fuck? Would do it again
Always have
Sovereign European defence lol.
We have slowly but steadily been working on a more and more integrated Nordic military, and even with heavy cooperation there is no question that we have completely different militaries.
Maybe you can have some divisions of “EU troops”, but what really needs to happen is for all European countries to get their shit together and make sure that *their* military is worthy its name.
EU is good and all, but we are too different for an EU-army to work. We need close cooperation within EU though.
Why would I sacrifice my healthcare so Americans spend less? They’re the idiot you convince to carry everything because they’re sooo strong.
I will out myself here as an academic researching geopolitics, the actual tradition. For public enjoyment, a history of the idea of European self reliance:
The idea that a divided Europe would be doomed to fade into irrelevance next to the larger powers of the world and would thus need to be united actually originated in the geopolitical thought of the German Empire. The liberal version of achieving this through diplomacy and trade was embodied in Bismarck‘s successor as chancellor of the Reich, Leo von Caprivi, who ultimately fell because his reformist course angered the Junkers, the landed gentry of Germany (and especially Prussia).
Before and throughout the First World War, the German allegation toward the British was that London was still fighting the last war (referring to Napoleon) and trying to preserve a balance of powers in Europe that had become obsolete with the rise of the peripheral powers of the US and Russia. Contrary to popular belief, the German goal in the First World War was not world hegemony but a plural world order in which naval Britain and continental Germany would represent Europe. Bethmann-Hollweg hoped until the very last moment that Britain would see this logic and join on Germany‘s side. Arguably, the complete and utter incompetence of German diplomats as well as the cluelessness of the British foreign policy establishment are to blame for the fact that the two countries could not come to an agreement or at least avoid a larger war in Europe (See, among others, Calleo: The German Problem Reconsidered. Dehio: Gleichgewicht oder Hegemonie)
Hitler mixed this geopolitical analysis of needing to unite Europe with his deranged ideas about race and the purity of blood. He, too, hoped for the very last second that the Brits would eventually join him (that’s why the German army let the British troops get away at Dunkirk), but whereas there was a decent change of this happening with imperial Germany, which was not unlike most other countries at the time, there was absolutely no way London would cooperate with the hellish Nazi regime. Britain would rather knowingly accept the decline of Europes global relevance and sacrifice its empire than playing second fiddle to the third Reich.
After the war, the French, personified in General DeGaulle, quietly accepted that the original analysis from imperial Germany: A disunited Europe would be delegated to mere pawns in the great game of global politics. It became the spiritual basis of the new European Community, which amusingly was not too different in form from what von Caprivi had envisioned before the reactionaries ended his career.
Edit: spelling
There’s cannot be a so called « European army » as long as there’s not an European patriotism.
Sorry, who are we expecting to attack?
This, nuclear power and their stance towards secularism are the only thing I’ll ever give the baguettes credit for.
A broken clock is correct twice a day
And by europe they mean mostly french
How about…*not bombing anyone*?
Someone forgot 1952.
100% agreed. But as a German I want to point out that USA only let people run this country if they spread their cheeks for them, so we are basically innocent.
Were they wrong? Initially, the most active countries supporting Ukraine were the USA and the UK while France and Germany were doing the bare minimum.
France is my first nation, Normandy my second, Europe, the most powerful, my third, i love all of them
https://preview.redd.it/md13ckfyh6xd1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42e60e2df7ed411612fb6e90778063704bb35933
Wait, you’re saying there should be an EU army? That’s mental. Just have alliances between nations – you don’t need to spend billions starting a whole new army.
[removed]
Except almost everything France proposes/wants is heavily focused on an expeditionary force instead of a defence force because they love fucking about in Africa so much
Don’t worry guys, papa America will come save you… unless trump gets in. Then you might need actual armies of your own.
Comments are closed.